2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Macklaren]

Wow, the mood in here is just as bad as the McLaren thread. maybe the same doomsayers/trolls? Relax guys...these guys are really smart and have a good track record of success. Unlike last year they have a clear plan with the B-spec car and are not lost like last year. In any case, race pace seems pretty close. Let us see what happens...it is a long season

[Matt2725]

Wow, the mood in here is just as bad as the McLaren thread. maybe the same doomsayers/trolls? Relax guys...these guys are really smart and have a good track record of success. Unlike last year they have a clear plan with the B-spec car and are not lost like last year. In any case, race pace seems pretty close. Let us see what happens...it is a long season

The team does have a good record indeed. Issue is, how much of that team is left still at Brackley?

[AR3-GP]

Wow, the mood in here is just as bad as the McLaren thread. maybe the same doomsayers/trolls? Relax guys...these guys are really smart and have a good track record of success. Unlike last year they have a clear plan with the B-spec car and are not lost like last year. In any case, race pace seems pretty close. Let us see what happens...it is a long season

There is no b-spec car.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... hEyEU.html

[Macklaren]

Wow, the mood in here is just as bad as the McLaren thread. maybe the same doomsayers/trolls? Relax guys...these guys are really smart and have a good track record of success. Unlike last year they have a clear plan with the B-spec car and are not lost like last year. In any case, race pace seems pretty close. Let us see what happens...it is a long season

There is no b-spec car.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... hEyEU.html

But they also said that they are abandoning this concept? at least the zeropods part?

[Spoutnik]

team is done

Basically what we knew already, and people think he’s signing that new deal.

He won’t be there next year

Where will he go ?

[AR3-GP]

Wow, the mood in here is just as bad as the McLaren thread. maybe the same doomsayers/trolls? Relax guys...these guys are really smart and have a good track record of success. Unlike last year they have a clear plan with the B-spec car and are not lost like last year. In any case, race pace seems pretty close. Let us see what happens...it is a long season

There is no b-spec car.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... hEyEU.html

But they also said that they are abandoning this concept? at least the zeropods part?

This is just going to end up in a game of semantics, just to warn you.

What is a "concept". The "concept" is a ground effects F1 car .

They can change their car without "abandoning" that

[mendis]

Wow, the mood in here is just as bad as the McLaren thread. maybe the same doomsayers/trolls? Relax guys...these guys are really smart and have a good track record of success. Unlike last year they have a clear plan with the B-spec car and are not lost like last year. In any case, race pace seems pretty close. Let us see what happens...it is a long season

The team does have a good record indeed. Issue is, how much of that team is left still at Brackley?

Marko recently said, Mercedes was not happy that James Vowels took few key engineers with him to Williams. So they have been bleeding with attrition, but I doubt if they can hire as they had to downsize from 950 engineers on Brackley, compared to 650 at Red Bull Racing division. They probably have repurposed a lot of their staff around HPP, Ineos and other business units to downsize themselves to meet the cost cap.

[Edax]

i just don't understand how can mike elliott get it so wrong while he worked all this time with allison

there has to be a problem somewhere else

how can you get it wrong 2 times in a row and even downgrade your car

Gambler’s fallacy perhaps?. A gambler is likely to take more risk, not less, after suffering a loss. The idea is to win back the loss in one go and it can’t go wrong all the time.

I got that feeling with McLaren. After falling back after years of dominance they started launching these high risk concepts (u-pods, suspension blockers), and it spectacularly backfired. I guess they felt they needed to do something special which had the potential to bring them back to dominance.

I get the same vibe with Merc.

[Matt2725]

i just don't understand how can mike elliott get it so wrong while he worked all this time with allison

there has to be a problem somewhere else

how can you get it wrong 2 times in a row and even downgrade your car

Gambler’s fallacy perhaps?. A gambler is likely to take more risk, not less, after suffering a loss. The idea is to win back the loss in one go and it can’t go wrong all the time.

I got that feeling with McLaren. After falling back after years of dominance they started launching these high risk concepts (u-pods, suspension blockers), and it spectacularly backfired. I guess they felt they needed to do something special which had the potential to bring them back to dominance.

I get the same vibe with Merc.

Thing is, Merc went this direction off the back of winning 8 back to back constructors titles.

I had a theory that they saw the theoretical advantage and got greedy. And even now they can't let go of that theoretical advantage which I don't think is going to show itself.

[pursue_one's]

" We are just on the wrong track again. "

And while Hamilton fully understood the progress that Mercedes was able to make last year as it got to grips with its porpoising car, he suggested that the current pace was the maximum from its current car concept.

"I have to be hopeful," he said. "I think there was good progress through last year, but the gap wasn't as big as it is now.

"Do I believe we can close the gap at some stage? Yes, but I think it's quite hard with the concept we have."

Hamilton's concerns about the state of his car mean he is not optimistic about being able to make any major progress over the remainder of the Bahrain GP weekend.

"I think I've got the car to the best place I can get it, set-up wise," he said. "We'll continue to tweak little bits here and there. But it's going to be small bits here and there, which is milliseconds. It's not going to be closing of the gap of a second.

"But nonetheless, we just keep our head down tonight and we'll go through the data. We will continue to work and try to progress tomorrow, but we have got to try and find out if there's any way we can have performance overnight."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... /10439127/

[Andi76]

I found this:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... chUOU.html

This is not the Sky Germany interview. So what can I say? He clearly told Sky Germany that the new sidepods "will look similar to those of the competition".

I realize that some people don't seem to want that, and we can argue forever about what he said when and where to whom, or someone else from Mercedes. The fact is that he said to Sky Germany that the sidepods will change soon and look similar to those of the competition, addressed that many were surprised that they stayed with the concept. And when Wolff, of all people, says something like that so clearly.... His statement is very clear and he said what he said. There is nothing to discuss. Everything else has to be seen. But if you hear that from him so explicitly and clearly - then that has to mean something, I think.

Andi76 you're not crazy. Ignore the people trying to downplay due to sensitivity...

Mike elliot earlier today:

“It’s part of the normal development. We have got a very different sidepod coming – I say very different, a different sidepod that’s coming. I think Toto said that in the press. But it takes time to bring that. It takes time to make the bits, it takes time to change the bits that go underneath the bodywork to fit, so we’ll bring it as soon as we can,” he said after FP1 on Friday.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... chUOU.html

Thanks, I didn't know that Mike Elliot has confirmed what Toto said to Sky Germany. I think it's out now. I think it was Mercedes' plan from the beginning. They wanted to give the concept another chance, even if with compromises, because "real" Zeropods were already no longer, and at the same time to make a step in the direction they were preparing in parallel, should problems arise again. Today Toto has pulled the ripcord, after it became clear that it does not work as one had hoped. Shovlin was probably not even in the loop, as the decision was made at short notice this morning. Let's see what Mercedes brings. But if, as seems pretty certain now, they turn away from the sidepods as predicted by one or two others on this forum for the last 10 months, all the discussion about whether the sidepods play a role in performance should be over. As well as the discussion about the importance in terms of front wheel wake, drag, vortex control etc. Where you mention sensitivity in this regard - I'm just curious whether the people who have often personally attacked others when it came to these things, will at least then also show the necessary size.

[Matt2725]

This is not the Sky Germany interview. So what can I say? He clearly told Sky Germany that the new sidepods "will look similar to those of the competition".

I realize that some people don't seem to want that, and we can argue forever about what he said when and where to whom, or someone else from Mercedes. The fact is that he said to Sky Germany that the sidepods will change soon and look similar to those of the competition, addressed that many were surprised that they stayed with the concept. And when Wolff, of all people, says something like that so clearly.... His statement is very clear and he said what he said. There is nothing to discuss. Everything else has to be seen. But if you hear that from him so explicitly and clearly - then that has to mean something, I think.

Andi76 you're not crazy. Ignore the people trying to downplay due to sensitivity...

Mike elliot earlier today:

“It’s part of the normal development. We have got a very different sidepod coming – I say very different, a different sidepod that’s coming. I think Toto said that in the press. But it takes time to bring that. It takes time to make the bits, it takes time to change the bits that go underneath the bodywork to fit, so we’ll bring it as soon as we can,” he said after FP1 on Friday.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... chUOU.html

Thanks, I didn't know that Mike Elliot has confirmed what Toto said to Sky Germany. I think it's out now. I think it was Mercedes' plan from the beginning. They wanted to give the concept another chance, even if with compromises, because "real" Zeropods were already no longer, and at the same time to make a step in the direction they were preparing in parallel, should problems arise again. Today Toto has pulled the ripcord, after it became clear that it does not work as one had hoped. Shovlin was probably not even in the loop, as the decision was made at short notice this morning. Let's see what Mercedes brings. But if, as seems pretty certain now, they turn away from the sidepods as predicted by one or two others on this forum for the last 10 months, all the discussion about whether the sidepods play a role in performance should be over. As well as the discussion about the importance in terms of front wheel wake, drag, vortex control etc. Where you mention sensitivity in this regard - I'm just curious whether the people who have often personally attacked others when it came to these things, will at least then also show the necessary size.

Would make sense if it was a last minute decision to abandon the concept after what they saw in FP1.

The question now is how quickly they can bring the new package to the car. Does appear they can safely write off at least the first three races.

[Andi76]

Andi76 you're not crazy. Ignore the people trying to downplay due to sensitivity...

Mike elliot earlier today:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... chUOU.html

Thanks, I didn't know that Mike Elliot has confirmed what Toto said to Sky Germany. I think it's out now. I think it was Mercedes' plan from the beginning. They wanted to give the concept another chance, even if with compromises, because "real" Zeropods were already no longer, and at the same time to make a step in the direction they were preparing in parallel, should problems arise again. Today Toto has pulled the ripcord, after it became clear that it does not work as one had hoped. Shovlin was probably not even in the loop, as the decision was made at short notice this morning. Let's see what Mercedes brings. But if, as seems pretty certain now, they turn away from the sidepods as predicted by one or two others on this forum for the last 10 months, all the discussion about whether the sidepods play a role in performance should be over. As well as the discussion about the importance in terms of front wheel wake, drag, vortex control etc. Where you mention sensitivity in this regard - I'm just curious whether the people who have often personally attacked others when it came to these things, will at least then also show the necessary size.

Would make sense if it was a last minute decision to abandon the concept after what they saw in FP1.

The question now is how quickly they can bring the new package to the car. Does appear they can safely write off at least the first three races.

The decision was taken before FP1 because Toto said the will bring new sidepods close to the competition at Sky Germany 45 min. before FP1 already. There was a crisis meeting on Friday at testing. I think the decision was taken there or today in the morning by Toto and Elliot after a final analysis of testing data.

[pursue_one's]

Thanks, I didn't know that Mike Elliot has confirmed what Toto said to Sky Germany. I think it's out now. I think it was Mercedes' plan from the beginning. They wanted to give the concept another chance, even if with compromises, because "real" Zeropods were already no longer, and at the same time to make a step in the direction they were preparing in parallel, should problems arise again. Today Toto has pulled the ripcord, after it became clear that it does not work as one had hoped. Shovlin was probably not even in the loop, as the decision was made at short notice this morning. Let's see what Mercedes brings. But if, as seems pretty certain now, they turn away from the sidepods as predicted by one or two others on this forum for the last 10 months, all the discussion about whether the sidepods play a role in performance should be over. As well as the discussion about the importance in terms of front wheel wake, drag, vortex control etc. Where you mention sensitivity in this regard - I'm just curious whether the people who have often personally attacked others when it came to these things, will at least then also show the necessary size.

Would make sense if it was a last minute decision to abandon the concept after what they saw in FP1.

The question now is how quickly they can bring the new package to the car. Does appear they can safely write off at least the first three races.

The decision was taken before FP1 because Toto said the will bring new sidepods close to the competition at Sky Germany 45 min. before FP1 already. There was a crisis meeting on Friday at testing. I think the decision was taken there or today in the morning by Toto and Elliot after a final analysis of testing data.

Are you sure about that? That would be so interesting if it happened.

[ringo]

All the emotions here would have you believe this is the Mclaren or Ferrari team thread!
Let's wait after 3 races.
Also Mclaren and Alpine can be watched closely. These two teams are using the redbull and AMR concept to some degree.
Everything else is pointing to the floor and suspension philosophy. I wont draw any conclusions until a few races.

The W14 seem to have a narrow window just like last year. Which seems more down the floor design. It's not bad, but it's not great. They will be fighting the weaker of the ferraris and the weaker Aston.

As for midseason upgrades. This car is able to copy a more out washed sidepod undercut and also the water slides.
The question is the budget to design and test and validate. But lets see what they can squeeze out of W14 as it is now.