The team does have a good record indeed. Issue is, how much of that team is left still at Brackley?Macklaren wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 19:58Wow, the mood in here is just as bad as the McLaren thread. maybe the same doomsayers/trolls? Relax guys...these guys are really smart and have a good track record of success. Unlike last year they have a clear plan with the B-spec car and are not lost like last year. In any case, race pace seems pretty close. Let us see what happens...it is a long season
There is no b-spec car.Macklaren wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 19:58Wow, the mood in here is just as bad as the McLaren thread. maybe the same doomsayers/trolls? Relax guys...these guys are really smart and have a good track record of success. Unlike last year they have a clear plan with the B-spec car and are not lost like last year. In any case, race pace seems pretty close. Let us see what happens...it is a long season
But they also said that they are abandoning this concept? at least the zeropods part?AR3-GP wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 20:02There is no b-spec car.Macklaren wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 19:58Wow, the mood in here is just as bad as the McLaren thread. maybe the same doomsayers/trolls? Relax guys...these guys are really smart and have a good track record of success. Unlike last year they have a clear plan with the B-spec car and are not lost like last year. In any case, race pace seems pretty close. Let us see what happens...it is a long season
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... hEyEU.html
This is just going to end up in a game of semantics, just to warn you.Macklaren wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 20:03But they also said that they are abandoning this concept? at least the zeropods part?AR3-GP wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 20:02There is no b-spec car.Macklaren wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 19:58Wow, the mood in here is just as bad as the McLaren thread. maybe the same doomsayers/trolls? Relax guys...these guys are really smart and have a good track record of success. Unlike last year they have a clear plan with the B-spec car and are not lost like last year. In any case, race pace seems pretty close. Let us see what happens...it is a long season
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... hEyEU.html
Marko recently said, Mercedes was not happy that James Vowels took few key engineers with him to Williams. So they have been bleeding with attrition, but I doubt if they can hire as they had to downsize from 950 engineers on Brackley, compared to 650 at Red Bull Racing division. They probably have repurposed a lot of their staff around HPP, Ineos and other business units to downsize themselves to meet the cost cap.Matt2725 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 20:01The team does have a good record indeed. Issue is, how much of that team is left still at Brackley?Macklaren wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 19:58Wow, the mood in here is just as bad as the McLaren thread. maybe the same doomsayers/trolls? Relax guys...these guys are really smart and have a good track record of success. Unlike last year they have a clear plan with the B-spec car and are not lost like last year. In any case, race pace seems pretty close. Let us see what happens...it is a long season
Gambler’s fallacy perhaps?. A gambler is likely to take more risk, not less, after suffering a loss. The idea is to win back the loss in one go and it can’t go wrong all the time.Venturiation wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 19:37i just don't understand how can mike elliott get it so wrong while he worked all this time with allison
there has to be a problem somewhere else
how can you get it wrong 2 times in a row and even downgrade your car
Thing is, Merc went this direction off the back of winning 8 back to back constructors titles.Edax wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 20:08Gambler’s fallacy perhaps?. A gambler is likely to take more risk, not less, after suffering a loss. The idea is to win back the loss in one go and it can’t go wrong all the time.Venturiation wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 19:37i just don't understand how can mike elliott get it so wrong while he worked all this time with allison
there has to be a problem somewhere else
how can you get it wrong 2 times in a row and even downgrade your car
I got that feeling with McLaren. After falling back after years of dominance they started launching these high risk concepts (u-pods, suspension blockers), and it spectacularly backfired. I guess they felt they needed to do something special which had the potential to bring them back to dominance.
I get the same vibe with Merc.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... /10439127/And while Hamilton fully understood the progress that Mercedes was able to make last year as it got to grips with its porpoising car, he suggested that the current pace was the maximum from its current car concept.
"I have to be hopeful," he said. "I think there was good progress through last year, but the gap wasn't as big as it is now.
"Do I believe we can close the gap at some stage? Yes, but I think it's quite hard with the concept we have."
Hamilton's concerns about the state of his car mean he is not optimistic about being able to make any major progress over the remainder of the Bahrain GP weekend.
"I think I've got the car to the best place I can get it, set-up wise," he said. "We'll continue to tweak little bits here and there. But it's going to be small bits here and there, which is milliseconds. It's not going to be closing of the gap of a second.
"But nonetheless, we just keep our head down tonight and we'll go through the data. We will continue to work and try to progress tomorrow, but we have got to try and find out if there's any way we can have performance overnight."
Thanks, I didn't know that Mike Elliot has confirmed what Toto said to Sky Germany. I think it's out now. I think it was Mercedes' plan from the beginning. They wanted to give the concept another chance, even if with compromises, because "real" Zeropods were already no longer, and at the same time to make a step in the direction they were preparing in parallel, should problems arise again. Today Toto has pulled the ripcord, after it became clear that it does not work as one had hoped. Shovlin was probably not even in the loop, as the decision was made at short notice this morning. Let's see what Mercedes brings. But if, as seems pretty certain now, they turn away from the sidepods as predicted by one or two others on this forum for the last 10 months, all the discussion about whether the sidepods play a role in performance should be over. As well as the discussion about the importance in terms of front wheel wake, drag, vortex control etc. Where you mention sensitivity in this regard - I'm just curious whether the people who have often personally attacked others when it came to these things, will at least then also show the necessary size.AR3-GP wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 18:53Andi76 you're not crazy. Ignore the people trying to downplay due to sensitivity...Andi76 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 17:08This is not the Sky Germany interview. So what can I say? He clearly told Sky Germany that the new sidepods "will look similar to those of the competition".Femi wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 17:00
I found this:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... chUOU.html
I realize that some people don't seem to want that, and we can argue forever about what he said when and where to whom, or someone else from Mercedes. The fact is that he said to Sky Germany that the sidepods will change soon and look similar to those of the competition, addressed that many were surprised that they stayed with the concept. And when Wolff, of all people, says something like that so clearly.... His statement is very clear and he said what he said. There is nothing to discuss. Everything else has to be seen. But if you hear that from him so explicitly and clearly - then that has to mean something, I think.
Mike elliot earlier today:https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... chUOU.html“It’s part of the normal development. We have got a very different sidepod coming – I say very different, a different sidepod that’s coming. I think Toto said that in the press. But it takes time to bring that. It takes time to make the bits, it takes time to change the bits that go underneath the bodywork to fit, so we’ll bring it as soon as we can,” he said after FP1 on Friday.
Would make sense if it was a last minute decision to abandon the concept after what they saw in FP1.Andi76 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 20:20Thanks, I didn't know that Mike Elliot has confirmed what Toto said to Sky Germany. I think it's out now. I think it was Mercedes' plan from the beginning. They wanted to give the concept another chance, even if with compromises, because "real" Zeropods were already no longer, and at the same time to make a step in the direction they were preparing in parallel, should problems arise again. Today Toto has pulled the ripcord, after it became clear that it does not work as one had hoped. Shovlin was probably not even in the loop, as the decision was made at short notice this morning. Let's see what Mercedes brings. But if, as seems pretty certain now, they turn away from the sidepods as predicted by one or two others on this forum for the last 10 months, all the discussion about whether the sidepods play a role in performance should be over. As well as the discussion about the importance in terms of front wheel wake, drag, vortex control etc. Where you mention sensitivity in this regard - I'm just curious whether the people who have often personally attacked others when it came to these things, will at least then also show the necessary size.AR3-GP wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 18:53Andi76 you're not crazy. Ignore the people trying to downplay due to sensitivity...Andi76 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 17:08
This is not the Sky Germany interview. So what can I say? He clearly told Sky Germany that the new sidepods "will look similar to those of the competition".
I realize that some people don't seem to want that, and we can argue forever about what he said when and where to whom, or someone else from Mercedes. The fact is that he said to Sky Germany that the sidepods will change soon and look similar to those of the competition, addressed that many were surprised that they stayed with the concept. And when Wolff, of all people, says something like that so clearly.... His statement is very clear and he said what he said. There is nothing to discuss. Everything else has to be seen. But if you hear that from him so explicitly and clearly - then that has to mean something, I think.
Mike elliot earlier today:https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... chUOU.html“It’s part of the normal development. We have got a very different sidepod coming – I say very different, a different sidepod that’s coming. I think Toto said that in the press. But it takes time to bring that. It takes time to make the bits, it takes time to change the bits that go underneath the bodywork to fit, so we’ll bring it as soon as we can,” he said after FP1 on Friday.
The decision was taken before FP1 because Toto said the will bring new sidepods close to the competition at Sky Germany 45 min. before FP1 already. There was a crisis meeting on Friday at testing. I think the decision was taken there or today in the morning by Toto and Elliot after a final analysis of testing data.Matt2725 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 20:23Would make sense if it was a last minute decision to abandon the concept after what they saw in FP1.Andi76 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 20:20Thanks, I didn't know that Mike Elliot has confirmed what Toto said to Sky Germany. I think it's out now. I think it was Mercedes' plan from the beginning. They wanted to give the concept another chance, even if with compromises, because "real" Zeropods were already no longer, and at the same time to make a step in the direction they were preparing in parallel, should problems arise again. Today Toto has pulled the ripcord, after it became clear that it does not work as one had hoped. Shovlin was probably not even in the loop, as the decision was made at short notice this morning. Let's see what Mercedes brings. But if, as seems pretty certain now, they turn away from the sidepods as predicted by one or two others on this forum for the last 10 months, all the discussion about whether the sidepods play a role in performance should be over. As well as the discussion about the importance in terms of front wheel wake, drag, vortex control etc. Where you mention sensitivity in this regard - I'm just curious whether the people who have often personally attacked others when it came to these things, will at least then also show the necessary size.AR3-GP wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 18:53
Andi76 you're not crazy. Ignore the people trying to downplay due to sensitivity...
Mike elliot earlier today:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... chUOU.html
The question now is how quickly they can bring the new package to the car. Does appear they can safely write off at least the first three races.
Are you sure about that? That would be so interesting if it happened.Andi76 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 20:27The decision was taken before FP1 because Toto said the will bring new sidepods close to the competition at Sky Germany 45 min. before FP1 already. There was a crisis meeting on Friday at testing. I think the decision was taken there or today in the morning by Toto and Elliot after a final analysis of testing data.Matt2725 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 20:23Would make sense if it was a last minute decision to abandon the concept after what they saw in FP1.Andi76 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 20:20
Thanks, I didn't know that Mike Elliot has confirmed what Toto said to Sky Germany. I think it's out now. I think it was Mercedes' plan from the beginning. They wanted to give the concept another chance, even if with compromises, because "real" Zeropods were already no longer, and at the same time to make a step in the direction they were preparing in parallel, should problems arise again. Today Toto has pulled the ripcord, after it became clear that it does not work as one had hoped. Shovlin was probably not even in the loop, as the decision was made at short notice this morning. Let's see what Mercedes brings. But if, as seems pretty certain now, they turn away from the sidepods as predicted by one or two others on this forum for the last 10 months, all the discussion about whether the sidepods play a role in performance should be over. As well as the discussion about the importance in terms of front wheel wake, drag, vortex control etc. Where you mention sensitivity in this regard - I'm just curious whether the people who have often personally attacked others when it came to these things, will at least then also show the necessary size.
The question now is how quickly they can bring the new package to the car. Does appear they can safely write off at least the first three races.