What if the breakaway happens?

[woohoo]

remember guys, as it is now Bernie and co. take about 50% of the teams monies.
If the teams create new series, they will have that much more to spend

[Conceptual]

remember guys, as it is now Bernie and co. take about 50% of the teams monies.
If the teams create new series, they will have that much more to spend

Not if Bernie has them under contract, and pursues it in court.

That 50% will still goto Bernie if they decide to leave, so I still think that it is in their best interest to invite him into the new series (if it happens) simply to get past the lawsuits that will ensue if FOTA breaks away.

That is, if the contracts are with Bernie, and not with the CVC.

[kilcoo316]

“Apart from my contracts with teams, if somebody went to any of our contracted people, companies, television contractors, we would view it very seriously.

“That would be inducement to breach contracts and I don’t do that myself so I won’t stand back and let it happen. Any action could run to hundreds of millions of pounds, who knows how much?”

Contracts with teams?

You don't have any you stunted dwarf - there is no concorde at the moment.

Contracted people?

Are you arrogant enough to think FOM personnel are the only ones capable of organising motor races - pathetic... Small angry man syndrome from the poison dwarf.

Regardless, people resign from jobs all the time. Often because they have been made offers elsewhere, its called business Bernie. Something similar to the way you play circuits against one another.

Contracted companies (inc. TV)?

That is between FOM and the respective companies.

If the teams make them an offer to sponsor/cover a separate racing series, that is absolutely nothing to do with you.




Contrary to baring his fangs - this shows how toothless the vertically challenged one is right now. If the teams walk, there is really very little FOM can do to stop them or the circuits setting up a new series.

Sponsors will inevitable follow the publicity - and it will not be with FOM-F1.

[kilcoo316]

remember guys, as it is now Bernie and co. take about 50% of the teams monies.
If the teams create new series, they will have that much more to spend

Not if Bernie has them under contract, and pursues it in court.

So the teams make token entries to fulfil the contract.

They are obliged to provide 2 cars for 18 races - no mention of how competitive they are.



What does the poison dwarf do then?

[astracrazy]

remember guys, as it is now Bernie and co. take about 50% of the teams monies.
If the teams create new series, they will have that much more to spend

Providing they keep all there sponsors and get the same TV revenue which F1 gets now.

BBC will stay with F1 - they signed a contract. Along with all the other TV channels around the world. What will the new series be on? Eurosport pops to mind for some reason. The new series will have to prove itself i would have thought to get any interest from a 'large' TV channel (like ITV, BBC etc). Be no diff to A1 GP starting out.

What about the sponsors? Will sponsors pay the same as they did when the Team was in F1? They wont be getting as much TV coverage. Thats providing no contracts have a F1 clause in them?

Or im talking crap lol

EDIT: Oh and what about merchandise etc.

[Conceptual]

remember guys, as it is now Bernie and co. take about 50% of the teams monies.
If the teams create new series, they will have that much more to spend

Not if Bernie has them under contract, and pursues it in court.

So the teams make token entries to fulfil the contract.

They are obliged to provide 2 cars for 18 races - no mention of how competitive they are.



What does the poison dwarf do then?

I wonder if just showing up with the 2006 cars (that will obviously not pass scrutineering) would fulfill the teams contracted obligations...

[kilcoo316]

That 50% will still goto Bernie if they decide to leave

No. It won't.

You continually fail to grasp that.



Keep him out, and you keep his 50% lift out as well.



You potentially can make an argument for him getting something through to 2012, however, since Ferrari's veto on the rule changes has been ignored, their contact has been defaulted.

Ferrari is his money - they go - he's left with nothing.




As I have also said if needs be, certain FOTA teams might have to make a token representation in FOM-F1, so what - run the 2009 cars, who cares if your uncompetitive. If you fail to pre-qualify, so much the better.

The teams can quite easily fulfil the leagal wording of their contracts while making an absolute farce out of FOM-F1.

[astracrazy]

it doesn't matter about the 50%

The new series will not get as much commercial revenue as F1. Yes each team will get more in terms of %, but that % will not be worth as much as they are getting in F1 now. see my last post

[kilcoo316]

Providing they keep all there sponsors and get the same TV revenue which F1 gets now.

They won't - that is why cost cutting is happening.


Look at it this way, currently teams are spending $400m (US).

The teams do want to reduce that - more gradually - to under $100m.

That is a quarter of current out goings - so they can afford to reduce the contracts for everyone - TV/track/sponsors and still turn out a balanced book.

Indeed, if the outgoings did reduce by a quarter, existing contracts could drop by 7/8ths and the books would still be good.

[kilcoo316]

The new series will not get as much commercial revenue as F1.

See mine.

I know it won't get the same - it doesn't have to.


FOTA are not against cutting costs, they aren't even against budget caps. They are against a digital introduction of a tenfold reduction in budgets!


As I said, reduce spend by 4 and the income streams can drop by 8 and everything is still hunky dory.

[kilcoo316]

But, once again, as kilcoo continues to say, I am clueless. It is amazing how an engineer knows so much about business. Or pretends to at least...

Most engineers are quite well rounded, and quite educated to the ways of the world. We all have to do accounting,law and business as part of degrees these days.


Most middle managers (looking mostly in the direction of the non-technical ones here) are just hot air balloons, many suffering from arse-elbow syndrome with ideas far above their station and severe misconceptions over their overall importance in the grand scheme of things. In fact, often, they do far more harm than good.



Bernie is a small hot air balloon. Not needed. Not even slightly.

[gcdugas]

So the teams make token entries to fulfil the contract.

They are obliged to provide 2 cars for 18 races - no mention of how competitive they are.

What does the poison dwarf do then?

As I have also said if needs be, certain FOTA teams might have to make a token representation in FOM-F1, so what - run the 2009 cars, who cares if your uncompetitive. If you fail to pre-qualify, so much the better.

The teams can quite easily fulfil the leagal wording of their contracts while making an absolute farce out of FOM-F1.

Kilcoo you think like I do. I just posted this on another forum...

If I were the teams, I would put large "FOTA 2010" stickers all over the cars, team uniforms, driver's hats during interviews etc. beginning Friday. What can Max do about that? He can get mad, that is what. But he can't prevent it.

Maybe what the teams should do is both. Commit to the FIA/FOM series, run on a budget of $500,000 with old cheap cars, no hospitality, no motor homes, no sponsorship, no sharing of their engines with the "new F1 teams", plaster their car with FOTA stickers and let Max have his spec car series. At the same time they could run serious FOTA races with real budgets, real sponsors, real drivers and real financial terms.

[gcdugas]

Contracts with teams?

You don't have any you stunted dwarf - there is no concorde at the moment.

Contracted people?

Are you arrogant enough to think FOM personnel are the only ones capable of organising motor races - pathetic... Small angry man syndrome from the poison dwarf.

Regardless, people resign from jobs all the time. Often because they have been made offers elsewhere, its called business Bernie. Something similar to the way you play circuits against one another.

Contracted companies (inc. TV)?

That is between FOM and the respective companies.

If the teams make them an offer to sponsor/cover a separate racing series, that is absolutely nothing to do with you.

Contrary to bearing his fangs - this shows how toothless the vertically challenged one is right now. If the teams walk, there is really very little FOM can do to stop them or the circuits setting up a new series.

Sponsors will inevitable follow the publicity - and it will not be with FOM-F1.

I 100% agree.

[astracrazy]

publicity being your important word

[kilcoo316]

publicity being your important word

Ferrari is publicity.

They go, McLaren go, Renault, BMW, Toyota, Brawn & Red Bull and you've the names of F1 (except Williams).



F1 has mostly been McLaren vs. Ferrari.


Tell me this - do you watch the darts at all?
What has happened the BDO tournament in the lakeside compared to the PDC?

Or the English Premiership compared to the old first division?


Big names will attract the sponsors. An "F1 series" without ferrari is F1 in name only. Bernie is acutely aware of that fact - thats why he gave them the veto and more money in the first place.