2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[johnny comelately]

Sorry to come in on this a bit late but any ideas on what happened to Charlie's car?

[organic]

Sorry to come in on this a bit late but any ideas on what happened to Charlie's car?

Italian media says fault with ES + ECU causing those raced to be unrecoverable, and they are still investigating the ES + ECU that they took out on Sunday morning and sent back to factory to inspect - don't know status of these yet. The "unusual parameters", the reason given for replacement, was apparently the ES not discharging overnight as it normally would

Cause of faults not given right now

AMuS info given in latest Formula Schmidt info is the same as Formu1a.uno/Duchessa/Donadoni so it seems believable right now

[LM10]

The cause is unknown. Fred told that such a problem didn’t occur on the bench test (6000 - 7000 km).

[organic]

The cause is unknown. Fred told that such a problem didn’t occur on the bench test (6000 - 7000 km).

That 6000-7000km figure refers to distance travelled in testing by the unit:

total laps by Ferrari powered teams = 1234

lap length = 5.412km

total distance travelled by Ferrari PU in testing = ~6700km

They haven't given a figure for how far run on benches, but just "over the winter"

[johnny comelately]

Thanks for that
I was going to mention Italian electics but that made me remember Lucas - Inventor of the first intermittent wiper. etc etc

[Andi76]

You can not buy it as much as you can. It’s absolutely normal to need much more time than 3 days of testing and 3 FP sessions to understand a completely new car. Most teams need several races to get on top of things. Mercedes didn’t even understand their car for half a year last season.

If you’re not new to F1 (which I guess you are like many others here) you should also remember the diva of a car Mercedes had in 2017 when for a very long time they didn’t understand why their car was working/not working under certain circumstances.

It’s not easy to make a car work in it‘s window, not on this high level. The tyres alone are a rocket science to understand just for a start.

I've been watching F1 for over 2 decades. I've seen every stage of post-2008 Ferrari failure multiple times over.
Mercedes' 2017 "diva" was still very competitive and winning often even before they fully got on top of it.
I don't see that level of competitiveness out of this car.

I don't know what Ferrari will end up doing this year, may fail again... But 2014-2018 Mercedes had such a massive engine advantage that they could have had a tractor and it was going to start and finish in front.


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I think you have to throw in a few simple facts now to see clearly - Leclerc in the SF-23 was 0.300 seconds slower than Verstappen in quali with one run less. Leclerc in the Ferrari was clearly the second fastest car behind the Red Bulls until his retirement. Anyone who doesn't see any potential in this car or even calls it a failure - sorry, but they're not capable of seeing reality. Especially when you consider that this course absolutely multiplies Ferrari's problem with the tires.

[Andi76]

the ferrari that was getting poles last year barely won any races and you want this ferrari that can't get poles win against a faster car in race?
just wait until aston martin gets the setup right it's over for ferrari

2023 is dominated by newey and followed by fallows

Car is not shyt. Obviously fans are venting because they are angry , if we do good job in next few races things will come down to normal...

But I do feel .. this aero/concept has its limitations/serious flaws. look at how swiftly AM changed its fortunes. all they did is steal few Adrien Newey disciples and copy RB concept. Even with the coping everything looks fine. And look at Mercs and Ferrari, both seem like stuck with same persistent issues ... Trying multiple things not knowing what to do.

exactly and i don't think it's about copying redbull

fallows ( who built the RB18) used what he learned from newey and applied to aston martin but by having original sideopods not a copy

there is something else going on in the floor and front suspension when you think that aston martin is doing that performance with mercedes component

and just look at alfa romeo they have no problem with tyre deg because they have same concept as redbull

haas copied ferrari and they have the same high tyres degradation

i think the concept is just at it's limit or they are stuck and haven't used some trick with the floor or suspension that newey and fallows know

There is no trick with anything. Red Bull and Aston Martin only have their own department that is responsible for designing the chassis, aerodynamics, braking system, suspension, etc. with consideration for and in line with the requirements of the tires as early as the design phase. This is a huge advantage, because keeping the tires in the right temperature window, both in qualifying and in the race, is incredibly complicated. In the days of the tire war, every team had such a department (modeled on Ferrari, ironically), but when there was only one manufacturer, almost all teams abolished these departments because they were considered superfluous with one tire manufacturer. Adrian Newey insisted on keeping this department....that's the trick. Nothing else. Matching the car to the tire at the design stage brings huge advantages.

[Vanja #66]

Things you love to see - same people saying Merc sidepods aren't the cause of any problems now saying every car with non-RB-like sidepods is doomed... So, what is it?

PS Neither

[organic]

Sidepods aren't the performance differentiator unless there is something found with the cockpit or floor edge legality box that can only be extracted with downwashing or inwashing concept

Ferrari directs the majority of their 'clean' air around the sidepod, has done and probably will do for this entire set of regulations. The solution worked well for the high-downforce concept they produced last year. It will most likely work well again this year but with a very efficient/low downforce package. The one thing they haven't sorted out is tyre wear relative to RB and that's a problem but it's not related to the sidepods which have already shown to be completely adaptable in terms of car characeristics.

[deadhead]

I've been watching F1 for over 2 decades. I've seen every stage of post-2008 Ferrari failure multiple times over.
Mercedes' 2017 "diva" was still very competitive and winning often even before they fully got on top of it.
I don't see that level of competitiveness out of this car.

I don't know what Ferrari will end up doing this year, may fail again... But 2014-2018 Mercedes had such a massive engine advantage that they could have had a tractor and it was going to start and finish in front.


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I think you have to throw in a few simple facts now to see clearly - Leclerc in the SF-23 was 0.300 seconds slower than Verstappen in quali with one run less. Leclerc in the Ferrari was clearly the second fastest car behind the Red Bulls until his retirement. Anyone who doesn't see any potential in this car or even calls it a failure - sorry, but they're not capable of seeing reality. Especially when you consider that this course absolutely multiplies Ferrari's problem with the tires.

LEC is exceptional around this track.. I’m not sure he will be able to compensate as much on all that many layouts

[AR3-GP]

Things you love to see - same people saying Merc sidepods aren't the cause of any problems now saying every car with non-RB-like sidepods is doomed... So, what is it?

PS Neither

Good spot

[Andi76]

Things you love to see - same people saying Merc sidepods aren't the cause of any problems now saying every car with non-RB-like sidepods is doomed... So, what is it?

PS Neither

Absolutely right! I have not pronounced it, but you have! It's funny to watch this now! However, they have the same stubbornness as they had with the Mercedes side boxes. At least there they don't turn like a flag in the wind.

In addition, now the trick for Low Tyre Deg is the underbody

[Venturiation]

Things you love to see - same people saying Merc sidepods aren't the cause of any problems now saying every car with non-RB-like sidepods is doomed... So, what is it?

PS Neither

It’s not Redbull sidepods

It’s more the floor and suspensions trick they use
Fallows made it for the RB18 and AMR23

Newey didn’t have that big of impact on it
And baldin

[Venturiation]

Things you love to see - same people saying Merc sidepods aren't the cause of any problems now saying every car with non-RB-like sidepods is doomed... So, what is it?

PS Neither

Absolutely right! I have not pronounced it, but you have! It's funny to watch this now! However, they have the same stubbornness as they had with the Mercedes side boxes. At least there they don't turn like a flag in the wind.

In addition, now the trick for Low Tyre Deg is the underbody

Now that you say it it’s true that Ferrari and Haas have high tyre deg and Alfa romeo doesn’t

It confirms Ferrari sideopods are very limited and a failure after 2022

Or it’s the suspension

[Xyz22]

I don't know what Ferrari will end up doing this year, may fail again... But 2014-2018 Mercedes had such a massive engine advantage that they could have had a tractor and it was going to start and finish in front.


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I think you have to throw in a few simple facts now to see clearly - Leclerc in the SF-23 was 0.300 seconds slower than Verstappen in quali with one run less. Leclerc in the Ferrari was clearly the second fastest car behind the Red Bulls until his retirement. Anyone who doesn't see any potential in this car or even calls it a failure - sorry, but they're not capable of seeing reality. Especially when you consider that this course absolutely multiplies Ferrari's problem with the tires.

LEC is exceptional around this track.. I’m not sure he will be able to compensate as much on all that many layouts

Alonso was by far the third-fastest driver in free air, especially with hard tyres. I think Lec (i'd like to point out that Leclerc doesn't like understeery cars that don't have a strong front end, so it's probably even performing under his real potential despite the fact that he already adapted his driving style to deal with the SF 23 current limitations) had enough gap to keep second place, but it would have been close. Alonso was able to lap in low 36 which was absolutely impossible for Ferrari last weekend.

Anyway on one hand i agree with Vanja. It's highly likely that this performance is the result of multiple factors:

1) The team still doesn't know the car that well
2) The front wing isn't probably working as expected
3) They were forced to use a compromised setup due to point 1 and 2
4) Such a skinny rear wing in a rear limited track like Bahrain is probably a death sentence for rear tyres.

Sainz said they couldn't push as that would immediately make the tyres go in overheating. The car had loads of understeer as well which is clearly evident from the telemetry.

On the other hand, i'm not as optimistic as him. Even fixing all of these issues (which is a big if), i still think the RB19 would be a quicker car overall.

Of course in order to have a chance for the WDC, these fixes must come at least before the 4th race, and work as expected, therefore putting the SF 23 at a similar level compared to the RB19.