Mercedes W14

[AR3-GP]

Good article.

So Mercedes has overshot the floor concept to orevent bouncing when the 15mm floor edge rule change was much better understood by other teams. Sad.

This reminds me of Merc's failure to adapt quickly to the 2021 floor changes.

It's worse because they were able to overcome that issue and were still equal best car throughout 2021. The W14 isn't going to be able to achieve this at all. Cost cap and development restrictions will see to this.

True. What I meant to say is that it was a failure to foresee the effect of floor regulation changes and hit the ground running.

[Stu]

https://i.postimg.cc/cJPXK8nV/image.png

It's interesting how much upward facing the rear brake duct outlet is. I never noticed before.

An attempt to energise the rear wing endplate vortex?

Or…

An attempt to keep all of that hot air away from the rear wheel ‘apparatus’?

Or…

Both of the above!!!

[Jdn1327]

Good article.

So Mercedes has overshot the floor concept to orevent bouncing when the 15mm floor edge rule change was much better understood by other teams. Sad.

If this is the problem is it a matter of both the sidepods and floor working together in relative harmony? And is it a relatively 'easy' fix...I use the term easy loosely of course...

[Venturiation]

changes

[vanburin]

And your so gullible if you think that is the case or that the sidepod doesn't have just as much to blame as there floor.

I was just posting what has been distributed by Mercedes, in a W14 thread, relevant to the design choices made for the W14. Seems simple enough.

Based on what's been written, it would seem that Mercedes is admitting that they went ultra-conservative on their floor concept to ensure the porpoising phenomenon wouldn't surface, without realizing how much of an effect the floor edge rule changes would have on solving their problems to begin with, without any further design intervention.

[Venturiation]

[PlatinumZealot]

Good article.

So Mercedes has overshot the floor concept to orevent bouncing when the 15mm floor edge rule change was much better understood by other teams. Sad.

If this is the problem is it a matter of both the sidepods and floor working together in relative harmony? And is it a relatively 'easy' fix...I use the term easy loosely of course...

Side pods dont influence the floor that much really. The vortices create a wall between them for the most part. If you look near to the base of side pod teams are similar there. There is one slight sweeping outwashing undercut that Mercedes is missing though. But this is not prevented by the zero pods.

[ringo]

Generally, yes the bigger the floor the more downforce... But it is very dependent on the geometry. RedBull had smaller floors and narrower diffusers in the V8 era and made more downforce than other teams.

So you're saying that the problem exists gar beyond the side pods...

Not quite, but more than that, too. The small sidepods mean there's less flow-handling surface area. But still, it's core to the car's philosophy, and therefore core to their current problem. I believe this widely well understood. What I think few people appreciate is where this leaves them: they don't have any avenues for development.

If they make dramatic changes to the sidepods, they'll have to change the entire aero package to support it--everything. On the other hand, if they only make tweaks to the current surfacing, there just aren't enough sq centimeters to realize meaningful improvements in balance and balance management, which is their main problem as I understand it. Alas, tweaks are probably all they can afford to do under the budget caps.

They probably realized this immediately after Toto opened his mouth after Baharain, and also why Lewis came out and said "there is no 'Plan-B' " or something to that effect.

I see your point, but it's maybe not as dramatic. They do not need to change the whole car. They need only generate more load with new floor and sidepods, and be able to balance it with adjusting what is adjustable, like wings and suspension. The refinement and changes can come after the macro changes prove effective.

[AR3-GP]

So you're saying that the problem exists gar beyond the side pods...

Not quite, but more than that, too. The small sidepods mean there's less flow-handling surface area. But still, it's core to the car's philosophy, and therefore core to their current problem. I believe this widely well understood. What I think few people appreciate is where this leaves them: they don't have any avenues for development.

If they make dramatic changes to the sidepods, they'll have to change the entire aero package to support it--everything. On the other hand, if they only make tweaks to the current surfacing, there just aren't enough sq centimeters to realize meaningful improvements in balance and balance management, which is their main problem as I understand it. Alas, tweaks are probably all they can afford to do under the budget caps.

They probably realized this immediately after Toto opened his mouth after Baharain, and also why Lewis came out and said "there is no 'Plan-B' " or something to that effect.

I see your point, but it's maybe not as dramatic. They do not need to change the whole car. They need only generate more load with new floor and sidepods, and be able to balance it with adjusting what is adjustable, like wings and suspension.

So in other words, change the whole car?

[ringo]

Not quite, but more than that, too. The small sidepods mean there's less flow-handling surface area. But still, it's core to the car's philosophy, and therefore core to their current problem. I believe this widely well understood. What I think few people appreciate is where this leaves them: they don't have any avenues for development.

If they make dramatic changes to the sidepods, they'll have to change the entire aero package to support it--everything. On the other hand, if they only make tweaks to the current surfacing, there just aren't enough sq centimeters to realize meaningful improvements in balance and balance management, which is their main problem as I understand it. Alas, tweaks are probably all they can afford to do under the budget caps.

They probably realized this immediately after Toto opened his mouth after Baharain, and also why Lewis came out and said "there is no 'Plan-B' " or something to that effect.

I see your point, but it's maybe not as dramatic. They do not need to change the whole car. They need only generate more load with new floor and sidepods, and be able to balance it with adjusting what is adjustable, like wings and suspension.

So in other words, change the whole car?

A new floor and sidepods is not the whole car.

Teams bring floors and engine covers to races all the time without the car being dubbed a B-spec.

Sometimes we over play the complexity of F-1. I remember years ago on the forum, when a change to pullrods was termed a no-brainer. Then there was coanda exhausts, f ducts, and all manner of different copying suggested. Some users felt such copying required the whole car to change and teams could not copy them the following year.
And we have seen that copying is not only relatively straightforward, it's how some teams most effectively have moved up the grid.

The W-14 is fixable with 3 major changes; new floor, bargeboard area, sidepods. It's not a total disaster. The car's biggest obstacle is the budget and side impact structure position, and even that can be worked around.
With those 3 macro changes, then fine tuning can follow.

[AR3-GP]

I see your point, but it's maybe not as dramatic. They do not need to change the whole car. They need only generate more load with new floor and sidepods, and be able to balance it with adjusting what is adjustable, like wings and suspension.

So in other words, change the whole car?

A new floor and sidepods is not the whole car.

Teams bring floors and engine covers to races all the time without the car being dubbed a B-spec.

Aston Martin brought a new floor and sidepods last year, and it was called a B-Spec by everyone. And that was the truth.


I'm surprised that some are hoping Mercedes change as little as possible and do not have a B-car coming . I would like to think the way to improve would be to move far away from the features which are failing them currently.

[organic]

TBF that was a new everything except for the front wing

[mkay]

Mercedes is just lacking the necessary know-how to build a car that can run low to the ground without porpoising. They’re missing a trick in the floor/suspension areas of the car.

[AR3-GP]

TBF that was a new everything except for the front wing

Well, the entire rear end hardware was still a Mercedes W13.

The AMR22B was essentially sidepods and a floor.

[Hoffman900]

I see your point, but it's maybe not as dramatic. They do not need to change the whole car. They need only generate more load with new floor and sidepods, and be able to balance it with adjusting what is adjustable, like wings and suspension.

So in other words, change the whole car?

A new floor and sidepods is not the whole car.

Teams bring floors and engine covers to races all the time without the car being dubbed a B-spec.

Sometimes we over play the complexity of F-1. I remember years ago on the forum, when a change to pullrods was termed a no-brainer. Then there was coanda exhausts, f ducts, and all manner of different copying suggested. Some users felt such copying required the whole car to change and teams could not copy them the following year.
And we have seen that copying is not only relatively straightforward, it's how some teams most effectively have moved up the grid.

The W-14 is fixable with 3 major changes; new floor, bargeboard area, sidepods. It's not a total disaster. The car's biggest obstacle is the budget and side impact structure position, and even that can be worked around.
With those 3 macro changes, then fine tuning can follow.

The front wishbone geometry and placement is a big driver in how air is fed into the sidepods and the floor intake.

Look at the change Aston Martin made here since last year it is now very similar to RB in this regard. My guess is it is one of the more important elements in making their concept features work.

Remember, nothing in aerodynamics happens in isolation and everything that comes before effects what comes after.

The front wing feeds the front wishbones which feed the sidepods and the floor, and so on and so forth.

Merc’s ability to change the sidepods and the floor inlet will be dictated by what their wishbone locations allow them to do. Changing the front suspension will likely require a tub change and new crash test.