2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[vorticism]

As a gas generator iirc was the original proposal and this might work. However it requires liquid oxygen...

[mzso]

As a gas generator iirc was the original proposal and this might work. However it requires liquid oxygen...

Yeah, but with a pulsating supersonic jet of gas?

[vorticism]

As a gas generator iirc was the original proposal and this might work. However it requires liquid oxygen...

Is that due to injection pressure, or the oxygen mass?

Several reasons. It's intended for an orbital rocket, which needs to carry both fuel and oxidizer for use outside of the atmosphere. Reacting fuel with oxidizer directly also provides a more energetic reaction which rocket engines are reliant upon to achieve combustion chamber pressure, exhaust velocity, and sufficient thrust. To do this with air (w only 10% oxidizer) would alter the rocket design. Air breathing rockets are conceptualized and usually involved some sort of compression of the air consumed in the combustion chamber, either by super or hypersonic compression as in ramjets or by liquifying the air with cryogenic heat exchangers as with the Skylon.

[Zynerji]

As a gas generator iirc was the original proposal and this might work. However it requires liquid oxygen...

Is that due to injection pressure, or the oxygen mass?

[Zynerji]

As a gas generator iirc was the original proposal and this might work. However it requires liquid oxygen...

Is that due to injection pressure, or the oxygen mass?

Several reasons. It's intended for an orbital rocket, which needs to carry both fuel and oxidizer for use outside of the atmosphere. Reacting fuel with oxidizer directly also provides a more energetic reaction which rocket engines are reliant upon to achieve combustion chamber pressure, exhaust velocity, and sufficient thrust. To do this with air (w only 10% oxidizer) would alter the rocket design. Air breathing rockets are conceptualized and usually involved some sort of compression of the air consumed in the combustion chamber, either by super or hypersonic compression as in ramjets or by liquifying the air with cryogenic heat exchangers as with the Skylon.

I thought you were speaking of the rde turbine generator. Upon more research, I've seen that a 2-3 cm annular diameter would only need 1.5bar to operate, but the devil is in the fuelling.

[vorticism]

So there are other examples other than the NASA prototype?

[wuzak]

As a gas generator iirc was the original proposal and this might work. However it requires liquid oxygen...

And currently is low powered and runs for less than 2 minutes at a time.

[Zynerji]

As a gas generator iirc was the original proposal and this might work. However it requires liquid oxygen...

And currently is low powered and runs for less than 2 minutes at a time.

Yes. Sounds like a great challenge to the teams. If F1 remains hybrid, I believe a gas turbine generator will be the way of the future

[gruntguru]

Small gas turbines are way less efficient than current PUs and the timeframe for getting them into the same ballpark would be IMO longer than the demise of heat engines in F1.

[Zynerji]

Small gas turbines are way less efficient than current PUs and the timeframe for getting them into the same ballpark would be IMO longer than the demise of heat engines in F1.

RDE is more efficient exhaust generator, has zero moving parts, and can have multiple detonation waves concurrently. also, it has noise.

My idea was to combine the MGU-H turbo with the RDE. The turbo kit would be identical in efficiency, it would come down to the exhaust generation, and I dont see the moving mass of a V6 being anywhere close to the RDE in that regard.

[Tommy Cookers]

RDE is more efficient exhaust generator, has zero moving parts ....

do you mean gas generator ? (ie producing high pressure/velocity gas)

"zero moving parts"
how does the air get compressed ? - (in a vehicle doing 30 - 180 mph)

losing the 8 speed gearbox will degrade the electrical side

[Zynerji]

RDE is more efficient exhaust generator, has zero moving parts ....

do you mean gas generator ? (ie producing high pressure/velocity gas)

"zero moving parts"
how does the air get compressed ? - (in a vehicle doing 30 - 180 mph)

losing the 8 speed gearbox will degrade the electrical side

What am I missing here? Your post history seems clear that you are intelligent enough to get what I posted.

V6+turbo+mguh -> RDE+turbo+mguh

Turbo still moves on both sides, but you lose 100% of the v6 moving parts if RDE drives the turbo. The turbo moves in both...

It would probably end up with 2 RDE+Turbo+MGUH driving a big K unit that is integrated directly into the transmission, like the GM 2ML70. Just with beefier electrics.

[mzso]

As a gas generator iirc was the original proposal and this might work. However it requires liquid oxygen...

And currently is low powered and runs for less than 2 minutes at a time.

Yes. Sounds like a great challenge to the teams. If F1 remains hybrid, I believe a gas turbine generator will be the way of the future

Depending on what you think of as hybrid. (possibly meaning fuel cell + battery)

[mzso]

V6+turbo+mguh -> RDE+turbo+mguh

Turbo still moves on both sides, but you lose 100% of the v6 moving parts if RDE drives the turbo. The turbo moves in both...

Well, it only exists in your fantasy so far.
A real turbo works on a steady-ish flow hot gas. I personally can't imagine turbines being created for supersonic shock-waves of a detonation, that work efficiently, or work at all.

[vorticism]

how does the air get compressed ? - (in a vehicle doing 30 - 180 mph)

What am I missing here?

His question about preparation of the oxidizer emboldened above. You need compression to raise the temp & density of the fuel-air mixture for proper combustion in a jet/ICE configuration. However you also said you want this thing to operate nearer to 1 bar (presumably on the infeed side) while producing supersonic combustion (detonation); otoh the known ways of doing that involve explosives. At which point we're getting into unconventional fuel sources in order to pull off this 1 bar feed-side fuel-oxidizer monopropellant solid state detonation gas generator.