RB looks so strong because Ferrari pretty much didn't improve from last year (or had a minimal improvement compared to the competition).
RB looks so strong because Ferrari pretty much didn't improve from last year (or had a minimal improvement compared to the competition).
Mercedes basically got the concept wrong but least with them i see them knowing what is wrong. Its just that due to cost cap thing they are finding it difficult to throw away all the investment in current concept. But hypothetically if they roll the dice i feel they will quickly catch-up…unlike Ferrari who seems to be one of the only few that looks clueless and has gone backwards.mzso wrote: ↑02 Apr 2023, 14:21He will, if if there are no openings. RB and Aston are full, and besides only Red Bull would be a definite step forward. Mercedes keeps bumbling with car design and no openings, Aston jumped to around second, but it's questionable whether they can get closer or maintain their position, and it's a one driver team and they have Alonso for multiple years.
Otherwise he best hope RB is willing to put a driver of his caliber beside Verstappen. And best hope he has an exit clause that will apply for next year.
I don't know why you think it's so bad.Shal_Leg16 wrote: ↑03 Apr 2023, 19:58Mercedes basically got the concept wrong but least with them i see them knowing what is wrong. Its just that due to cost cap thing they are finding it difficult to throw away all the investment in current concept. But hypothetically if they roll the dice i feel they will quickly catch-up…unlike Ferrari who seems to be one of the only few that looks clueless and has gone backwards.mzso wrote: ↑02 Apr 2023, 14:21He will, if if there are no openings. RB and Aston are full, and besides only Red Bull would be a definite step forward. Mercedes keeps bumbling with car design and no openings, Aston jumped to around second, but it's questionable whether they can get closer or maintain their position, and it's a one driver team and they have Alonso for multiple years.
Otherwise he best hope RB is willing to put a driver of his caliber beside Verstappen. And best hope he has an exit clause that will apply for next year.
I feel Charles actually really wants to win it with Ferrari but practically he has better chance with Mercs if lewis retires.
On most weekends Charles can extract more from the car, but not all of them, this was looking like a Sainz weekend, he was fast and racy this weekend.Vinlarr89 wrote: ↑03 Apr 2023, 21:49Just think the situation whereby Sainz found himself back in 11th didn’t help as he had to push harder to get back up the field didn’t help. If he could have got onto DRS on the back of alonso it could have been different. Leclerc is normally extracting more out the car, you’d like to think he could have got podium
Seriously?continuum16 wrote: ↑03 Apr 2023, 16:33The only thing that should draw confusion is the fact that Sargeant and Gasly escaped penalty. Saint’s penalty was correct; he hit Fernando at the first corner. That’s not really debatable.abhi1200 wrote: ↑03 Apr 2023, 12:35its just insane to penalize sainz for crashing into fernando which was not even part of race as they neutralize that part of racing which fIA has re-order the racing position as prior to last lap of all car and had alpine has not crash they would have been instate if fia has not consider that part as racing then how they has penalised the carlos and that also under a safety car which not only took away fourth position from carlos even took him out of point best case scenario would have been in next race 2 position or 3 position grid penalty would be better bcoz under safety car with just last lap he was sitting duck and if i remember same kind of incident if not the same situation with lance and fernando his(future team mate) clashed and for that if i am not wrong lance was given grip penalty in next race.
As for whether the lap “didn’t count” as part of the race, it absolutely did; it was lap 57. Lap 56 was the “formation lap” before the restart, lap 57 was the restart and red flag, lap 58 was the “formation lap” to the finish.
As for re-ordering the field, this is the same procedure that let Sainz stay in front in Silverstone 2022 after the Zhou crash. Precedent set, precedent followed. I don’t see what the confusion is beyond the lack of penalties for other drivers.
I can see the double standards. But I can not see the words "harsh, extremely hard, or unfair". Hitting your opponent in any racing series other than F1 like this is always a drive through. I do not know why F1 has a 5sec penalty for rotating your opponent at all and I do not know why they sometimes have trouble giving a penalty at all or for the car in front.Andres125sx wrote: ↑04 Apr 2023, 08:05Seriously?continuum16 wrote: ↑03 Apr 2023, 16:33The only thing that should draw confusion is the fact that Sargeant and Gasly escaped penalty. Saint’s penalty was correct; he hit Fernando at the first corner. That’s not really debatable.abhi1200 wrote: ↑03 Apr 2023, 12:35its just insane to penalize sainz for crashing into fernando which was not even part of race as they neutralize that part of racing which fIA has re-order the racing position as prior to last lap of all car and had alpine has not crash they would have been instate if fia has not consider that part as racing then how they has penalised the carlos and that also under a safety car which not only took away fourth position from carlos even took him out of point best case scenario would have been in next race 2 position or 3 position grid penalty would be better bcoz under safety car with just last lap he was sitting duck and if i remember same kind of incident if not the same situation with lance and fernando his(future team mate) clashed and for that if i am not wrong lance was given grip penalty in next race.
As for whether the lap “didn’t count” as part of the race, it absolutely did; it was lap 57. Lap 56 was the “formation lap” before the restart, lap 57 was the restart and red flag, lap 58 was the “formation lap” to the finish.
As for re-ordering the field, this is the same procedure that let Sainz stay in front in Silverstone 2022 after the Zhou crash. Precedent set, precedent followed. I don’t see what the confusion is beyond the lack of penalties for other drivers.
What about the fact that first race incidents are usually considered racing incidents, while this time they punished Sainz extremelly hard demoting him from 4th to 12th for a small and pretty common mistake on first lap?
One position lost, or two-three positions on next grid would have been a lot more sensible, even if still unfair (I can mention dozens of accidents in first lap wich didn´t draw any penalty), but demoting 8 position and removing 12 points is probably the biggest penalty we´ve seen in F1 in decades... for a small and common mistake
Infuriating double standards
The season is absolutely over in terms of WDC. Max is winning without pushing even remotely close to the limits of the car.jambuka wrote: ↑04 Apr 2023, 07:22I feel the car performed better than expected. Had Sainz not put on hards immediately and waited for red flag, he could have even challenged Lewis. Having said that, if the new floor stay has actually improved the operating window, if they can’t show big improvements in the next two races, then the season is most likely over. RB is not invincible, neither is Max.
Gasly didn't receive any penalty for example, despite crushing a rival (his teammate) against a wallbasti313 wrote: ↑04 Apr 2023, 08:58
I can see the double standards. But I can not see the words "harsh, extremely hard, or unfair". Hitting your opponent in any racing series other than F1 like this is always a drive through. I do not know why F1 has a 5sec penalty for rotating your opponent at all and I do not know why they sometimes have trouble giving a penalty at all or for the car in front.
But...in any case for just running too hot into the corner and hitting another car on the back wheel a 5sec penalty is really soft. And Sainz was simply lucky to be on the inside, if he runs like this on the outside then he does a Stroll and goes into the gravel. I do not get the discussion here...he made an error, stand to it.
Well, not 12 points, but the penalty for Schumacher at Monaco 2010 was a similar joke. He got penalized because the stewards didn't execute the rules correctly and switched the track to green at the very end and Schumacher overtook Alonso. So he got a penalty because the race control made a mistake.Andres125sx wrote: ↑04 Apr 2023, 12:16Can anyone point me to any penalty which deprived any driver from scoring 12 points? I've seen much more severe mistakes, and not even those received such a severe punishment
100%. I felt this several times. They need experienced driver. have two kids is not going to help the team. They are paying for their decision. Kick out Sainz and bring experienced one next year.
As I said, I see the double standards, no need to discuss them.Andres125sx wrote: ↑04 Apr 2023, 12:16Gasly didn't receive any penalty for example, despite crushing a rival (his teammate) against a wallbasti313 wrote: ↑04 Apr 2023, 08:58
I can see the double standards. But I can not see the words "harsh, extremely hard, or unfair". Hitting your opponent in any racing series other than F1 like this is always a drive through. I do not know why F1 has a 5sec penalty for rotating your opponent at all and I do not know why they sometimes have trouble giving a penalty at all or for the car in front.
But...in any case for just running too hot into the corner and hitting another car on the back wheel a 5sec penalty is really soft. And Sainz was simply lucky to be on the inside, if he runs like this on the outside then he does a Stroll and goes into the gravel. I do not get the discussion here...he made an error, stand to it.
Which opens up just more double standards? If last place rotates the car in front he gets a different penalty as if P2 rotates the car in front? I do not like this.Andres125sx wrote: ↑04 Apr 2023, 12:16Apart from that, penalties should be proportional to the infringement or mistake.
Well...point 1 for me is, that 5sec is a wrong standard. If you rotate the car in front of you, you have to wave a nice hello to your pit crew in my point of view. So this nearly always puts you out of the points.Andres125sx wrote: ↑04 Apr 2023, 12:16You can't say 5 seconds is standard, under SC applying 5 seconds equals to DSQ...
No. I think the only fair penalty for rotating the car in front by hitting the rear wheel is a drive through, nothing else.Andres125sx wrote: ↑04 Apr 2023, 12:16You really think that is a fair punishment for a mistake with no consequences for any driver?