What a load of utter nonsense, the drivers are the least of their worries, there is nothing particularly wrong with the driver line-up. Heck, put Verstappen and Hamilton in that team and they'd struggle to do much more. Reliability has been terrible so far, the pace is nowhere near as good as they made it out to be (they're still a long way off challenging the likes of Mercedes/Ferrari, and AM's jump has just embarrassed them even further), and strategy as usual has been questionable at times.Bisonas wrote: ↑01 May 2023, 01:24Regarding 2023, they where in trouble from the moment Alonso announced his exit last summer.
Their arrogance forbade them to admit it at the time, but deep inside they knew. IMO is going to get worse. Their fight this year IMO is with Mclaren for 5th place. Nothing more, nothing less. Alpine "moral wise" is experiencing the exact opposite from what is happening in AMR this year.
max_speed wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 05:10They are paying the Price of choosing $$ over experience. i think real old person is Ottmar. By end of this season they will be lost as maturity is absent in ocon to lead the development of car forward. what a farce they have been for a decade , just in F1 for show with no serious intent to win.
Doohan?diffuser wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 18:07max_speed wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 05:10They are paying the Price of choosing $$ over experience. i think real old person is Ottmar. By end of this season they will be lost as maturity is absent in ocon to lead the development of car forward. what a farce they have been for a decade , just in F1 for show with no serious intent to win.
I don't think that's right. In the end they saved money on Alonso's contract but they threw away money in buying out Gasly's contract from RBR. They also lost all the money they spent on Piastri.
The reality is that Rossi had too many balls in the air when he was restructuring and he dropped a couple of them. They clearly were balancing Alonso against Piastri. They should have realized that as soon as Vettel announced his retirement that they needed to give Alonso the 2 year contract. That the market had changed and they couldn't force him into a 1 year deal any longer. Piastri was a Lawyer snafu that ultimately Management(Rossi) is responsible for, Budkowski was probably handling that. Then he fired him. You could also blame Otmar a bit on that, cause he took over from Budkowski.
I share the suspicions you have on Ocon but I have not seen full proof convincing evidence of that. Remember that they were doing really well in Australia until MAG hit the wall with 2 laps left. Those accident cost them alot of points and might of set them up for a disappointing Baku. Ocon does have this mentality of "keep you team mate behind at all costs" attitude, which I don't like. Doohan might be ready for next year although they have another year on Ocon's contract.
When you see the gap between Leclerc and Sainz in Baku, drivers matter. 18 seconds
Jack Doohan (born 20 January 2003) is an Australian race car driver[1] serving as reserve driver for Alpine F1 Team[2] and currently competing in the FIA Formula 2 Championship with Invicta Virtuosi Racing.[3] He is the 2021 FIA Formula 3 vice-champion and a former member of the Red Bull Junior Team. He is the son of motorcycle rider Mick Doohan, who is a five-time 500cc world champion.[4]AR3-GP wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 18:50Doohan?diffuser wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 18:07max_speed wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 05:10They are paying the Price of choosing $$ over experience. i think real old person is Ottmar. By end of this season they will be lost as maturity is absent in ocon to lead the development of car forward. what a farce they have been for a decade , just in F1 for show with no serious intent to win.
I don't think that's right. In the end they saved money on Alonso's contract but they threw away money in buying out Gasly's contract from RBR. They also lost all the money they spent on Piastri.
The reality is that Rossi had too many balls in the air when he was restructuring and he dropped a couple of them. They clearly were balancing Alonso against Piastri. They should have realized that as soon as Vettel announced his retirement that they needed to give Alonso the 2 year contract. That the market had changed and they couldn't force him into a 1 year deal any longer. Piastri was a Lawyer snafu that ultimately Management(Rossi) is responsible for, Budkowski was probably handling that. Then he fired him. You could also blame Otmar a bit on that, cause he took over from Budkowski.
I share the suspicions you have on Ocon but I have not seen full proof convincing evidence of that. Remember that they were doing really well in Australia until MAG hit the wall with 2 laps left. Those accident cost them alot of points and might of set them up for a disappointing Baku. Ocon does have this mentality of "keep you team mate behind at all costs" attitude, which I don't like. Doohan might be ready for next year although they have another year on Ocon's contract.
Yes I know who Jack Doohan is. I'm just not convinced he is any better than Ocon and Gasly and you suggested him as if he's some kind of Alonso in waiting. I can't see it.diffuser wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 23:52Jack Doohan (born 20 January 2003) is an Australian race car driver[1] serving as reserve driver for Alpine F1 Team[2] and currently competing in the FIA Formula 2 Championship with Invicta Virtuosi Racing.[3] He is the 2021 FIA Formula 3 vice-champion and a former member of the Red Bull Junior Team. He is the son of motorcycle rider Mick Doohan, who is a five-time 500cc world champion.[4]AR3-GP wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 18:50Doohan?diffuser wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 18:07
I don't think that's right. In the end they saved money on Alonso's contract but they threw away money in buying out Gasly's contract from RBR. They also lost all the money they spent on Piastri.
The reality is that Rossi had too many balls in the air when he was restructuring and he dropped a couple of them. They clearly were balancing Alonso against Piastri. They should have realized that as soon as Vettel announced his retirement that they needed to give Alonso the 2 year contract. That the market had changed and they couldn't force him into a 1 year deal any longer. Piastri was a Lawyer snafu that ultimately Management(Rossi) is responsible for, Budkowski was probably handling that. Then he fired him. You could also blame Otmar a bit on that, cause he took over from Budkowski.
I share the suspicions you have on Ocon but I have not seen full proof convincing evidence of that. Remember that they were doing really well in Australia until MAG hit the wall with 2 laps left. Those accident cost them alot of points and might of set them up for a disappointing Baku. Ocon does have this mentality of "keep you team mate behind at all costs" attitude, which I don't like. Doohan might be ready for next year although they have another year on Ocon's contract.
Gees, rough crowd. They've given up on him before he's even started.AR3-GP wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 23:53Yes I know who Jack Doohan is. I'm just not convinced he is any better than Ocon and Gasly and you suggested him as if he's some kind of Alonso in waiting. I can't see it.diffuser wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 23:52Jack Doohan (born 20 January 2003) is an Australian race car driver[1] serving as reserve driver for Alpine F1 Team[2] and currently competing in the FIA Formula 2 Championship with Invicta Virtuosi Racing.[3] He is the 2021 FIA Formula 3 vice-champion and a former member of the Red Bull Junior Team. He is the son of motorcycle rider Mick Doohan, who is a five-time 500cc world champion.[4]
I'm sure he's a decent driver, it's just that we haven't heard about him the way we typically hear about future stars. Piastri has a stronger resume.diffuser wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 23:56Gees, rough crowd. They've given up on him before he's even started.AR3-GP wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 23:53Yes I know who Jack Doohan is. I'm just not convinced he is any better than Ocon and Gasly and you suggested him as if he's some kind of Alonso in waiting. I can't see it.diffuser wrote: ↑02 May 2023, 23:52
Jack Doohan (born 20 January 2003) is an Australian race car driver[1] serving as reserve driver for Alpine F1 Team[2] and currently competing in the FIA Formula 2 Championship with Invicta Virtuosi Racing.[3] He is the 2021 FIA Formula 3 vice-champion and a former member of the Red Bull Junior Team. He is the son of motorcycle rider Mick Doohan, who is a five-time 500cc world champion.[4]
You don't think having two tier-one drivers would be better than having two midfield drivers who are prone to mistakes like taking each other out of the race in Australia?
By definition as tier one drivers, wouldn't Verstappen and Hamilton likely get more performance (even if it's just 2-3 tenths) out of the car than Ocon and Gasly, which can be worth up to 4-5 grid positions in the midfield?
IIRC, Jaguar made the call to save money for the 2003 season and went with Webber and Pizzonia. Alpine could make the same call to go with Martins and Doohan (500,000 EUR each), to save on Ocon and Gasly salary costs? Ultimately, that did not help Jaguar progress up the grid, but they did save money compared to Irvine and de la Rosa's salaries.
If Piastri turns out to be tier-one driver, Alpine were not interested in promoting him in a timely manner -- instead specifying a sabbatical and then delaying a race contract offer while Piastri looked elsewhere as an uncontracted free agent, so that's on them. Best to turn attention to Martins as a future WDC in my opinion.