2023 Alpine F1 Team

[max_speed]

They are paying the Price of choosing $$ over experience. i think real old person is Ottmar. By end of this season they will be lost as maturity is absent in ocon to lead the development of car forward. what a farce they have been for a decade , just in F1 for show with no serious intent to win.

[ali623]

They had something like 20 minutes of running in free practice. For their sake, they should hope that's a valid excuse because they'll be in trouble otherwise.

Regarding 2023, they where in trouble from the moment Alonso announced his exit last summer.
Their arrogance forbade them to admit it at the time, but deep inside they knew. IMO is going to get worse. Their fight this year IMO is with Mclaren for 5th place. Nothing more, nothing less. Alpine "moral wise" is experiencing the exact opposite from what is happening in AMR this year.

What a load of utter nonsense, the drivers are the least of their worries, there is nothing particularly wrong with the driver line-up. Heck, put Verstappen and Hamilton in that team and they'd struggle to do much more. Reliability has been terrible so far, the pace is nowhere near as good as they made it out to be (they're still a long way off challenging the likes of Mercedes/Ferrari, and AM's jump has just embarrassed them even further), and strategy as usual has been questionable at times.

The team is a complete mess right now, but that has absolutely nothing to do with Alonso's exit, had they kept him for this season, it would be the exact same situation right now. They need to step back as a team and face reality rather than spouting these pointless PR messages, otherwise I don't see them making any actual progress anytime soon.

[AR3-GP]

Iirc, Baku is the only weekend where they had reliability issues and it wasn’t actually PU related. This could have been a side effect of all of the carnage in Australia which was caused by the drivers…They seem to have sorted the PU compared to last year.

Time will tell if Baku was a fluke. Permane said in Motorsport.com that the upgrades worked but lack of free practice screwed them.

[Wouter]

On their way to Miami they stopped in Charlotte.

[diffuser]

They are paying the Price of choosing $$ over experience. i think real old person is Ottmar. By end of this season they will be lost as maturity is absent in ocon to lead the development of car forward. what a farce they have been for a decade , just in F1 for show with no serious intent to win.

I don't think that's right. In the end they saved money on Alonso's contract but they threw away money in buying out Gasly's contract from RBR. They also lost all the money they spent on Piastri.

The reality is that Rossi had too many balls in the air when he was restructuring and he dropped a couple of them. They clearly were balancing Alonso against Piastri. They should have realized that as soon as Vettel announced his retirement that they needed to give Alonso the 2 year contract. That the market had changed and they couldn't force him into a 1 year deal any longer. Piastri was a Lawyer snafu that ultimately Management(Rossi) is responsible for, Budkowski was probably handling that. Then he fired him. You could also blame Otmar a bit on that, cause he took over from Budkowski.


I share the suspicions you have on Ocon but I have not seen full proof convincing evidence of that. Remember that they were doing really well in Australia until MAG hit the wall with 2 laps left. Those accident cost them alot of points and might of set them up for a disappointing Baku. Ocon does have this mentality of "keep you team mate behind at all costs" attitude, which I don't like. Doohan might be ready for next year although they have another year on Ocon's contract.

[AR3-GP]

They are paying the Price of choosing $$ over experience. i think real old person is Ottmar. By end of this season they will be lost as maturity is absent in ocon to lead the development of car forward. what a farce they have been for a decade , just in F1 for show with no serious intent to win.

I don't think that's right. In the end they saved money on Alonso's contract but they threw away money in buying out Gasly's contract from RBR. They also lost all the money they spent on Piastri.

The reality is that Rossi had too many balls in the air when he was restructuring and he dropped a couple of them. They clearly were balancing Alonso against Piastri. They should have realized that as soon as Vettel announced his retirement that they needed to give Alonso the 2 year contract. That the market had changed and they couldn't force him into a 1 year deal any longer. Piastri was a Lawyer snafu that ultimately Management(Rossi) is responsible for, Budkowski was probably handling that. Then he fired him. You could also blame Otmar a bit on that, cause he took over from Budkowski.


I share the suspicions you have on Ocon but I have not seen full proof convincing evidence of that. Remember that they were doing really well in Australia until MAG hit the wall with 2 laps left. Those accident cost them alot of points and might of set them up for a disappointing Baku. Ocon does have this mentality of "keep you team mate behind at all costs" attitude, which I don't like. Doohan might be ready for next year although they have another year on Ocon's contract.

Doohan?

[danypons8]

I think Alpine doesnt need a good driver.
They have so many years working for upgrade the car, and for the new rules, with the title in the target, but the real objetive is fight for had points all the races.
If I was Omar, I save the money of the drivers for work in the car, better enginners, better factory, better developement.
Two cheap rookies and go go go.

[AR3-GP]

I think Alpine doesnt need a good driver.

When you see the gap between Leclerc and Sainz in Baku, drivers matter. 18 seconds

We don't know how quick this car is without an elite driver.

[diffuser]

They are paying the Price of choosing $$ over experience. i think real old person is Ottmar. By end of this season they will be lost as maturity is absent in ocon to lead the development of car forward. what a farce they have been for a decade , just in F1 for show with no serious intent to win.

I don't think that's right. In the end they saved money on Alonso's contract but they threw away money in buying out Gasly's contract from RBR. They also lost all the money they spent on Piastri.

The reality is that Rossi had too many balls in the air when he was restructuring and he dropped a couple of them. They clearly were balancing Alonso against Piastri. They should have realized that as soon as Vettel announced his retirement that they needed to give Alonso the 2 year contract. That the market had changed and they couldn't force him into a 1 year deal any longer. Piastri was a Lawyer snafu that ultimately Management(Rossi) is responsible for, Budkowski was probably handling that. Then he fired him. You could also blame Otmar a bit on that, cause he took over from Budkowski.


I share the suspicions you have on Ocon but I have not seen full proof convincing evidence of that. Remember that they were doing really well in Australia until MAG hit the wall with 2 laps left. Those accident cost them alot of points and might of set them up for a disappointing Baku. Ocon does have this mentality of "keep you team mate behind at all costs" attitude, which I don't like. Doohan might be ready for next year although they have another year on Ocon's contract.

Doohan?

Jack Doohan (born 20 January 2003) is an Australian race car driver[1] serving as reserve driver for Alpine F1 Team[2] and currently competing in the FIA Formula 2 Championship with Invicta Virtuosi Racing.[3] He is the 2021 FIA Formula 3 vice-champion and a former member of the Red Bull Junior Team. He is the son of motorcycle rider Mick Doohan, who is a five-time 500cc world champion.[4]

[AR3-GP]

I don't think that's right. In the end they saved money on Alonso's contract but they threw away money in buying out Gasly's contract from RBR. They also lost all the money they spent on Piastri.

The reality is that Rossi had too many balls in the air when he was restructuring and he dropped a couple of them. They clearly were balancing Alonso against Piastri. They should have realized that as soon as Vettel announced his retirement that they needed to give Alonso the 2 year contract. That the market had changed and they couldn't force him into a 1 year deal any longer. Piastri was a Lawyer snafu that ultimately Management(Rossi) is responsible for, Budkowski was probably handling that. Then he fired him. You could also blame Otmar a bit on that, cause he took over from Budkowski.


I share the suspicions you have on Ocon but I have not seen full proof convincing evidence of that. Remember that they were doing really well in Australia until MAG hit the wall with 2 laps left. Those accident cost them alot of points and might of set them up for a disappointing Baku. Ocon does have this mentality of "keep you team mate behind at all costs" attitude, which I don't like. Doohan might be ready for next year although they have another year on Ocon's contract.

Doohan?

Jack Doohan (born 20 January 2003) is an Australian race car driver[1] serving as reserve driver for Alpine F1 Team[2] and currently competing in the FIA Formula 2 Championship with Invicta Virtuosi Racing.[3] He is the 2021 FIA Formula 3 vice-champion and a former member of the Red Bull Junior Team. He is the son of motorcycle rider Mick Doohan, who is a five-time 500cc world champion.[4]

Yes I know who Jack Doohan is. I'm just not convinced he is any better than Ocon and Gasly and you suggested him as if he's some kind of Alonso in waiting. I can't see it.

[diffuser]

I think Alpine doesnt need a good driver.

When you see the gap between Leclerc and Sainz in Baku, drivers matter. 18 seconds

We don't know how quick this car is without an elite driver.

or Alonso and Stroll

[diffuser]

Doohan?

Jack Doohan (born 20 January 2003) is an Australian race car driver[1] serving as reserve driver for Alpine F1 Team[2] and currently competing in the FIA Formula 2 Championship with Invicta Virtuosi Racing.[3] He is the 2021 FIA Formula 3 vice-champion and a former member of the Red Bull Junior Team. He is the son of motorcycle rider Mick Doohan, who is a five-time 500cc world champion.[4]

Yes I know who Jack Doohan is. I'm just not convinced he is any better than Ocon and Gasly and you suggested him as if he's some kind of Alonso in waiting. I can't see it.

Gees, rough crowd. They've given up on him before he's even started.

[AR3-GP]

Jack Doohan (born 20 January 2003) is an Australian race car driver[1] serving as reserve driver for Alpine F1 Team[2] and currently competing in the FIA Formula 2 Championship with Invicta Virtuosi Racing.[3] He is the 2021 FIA Formula 3 vice-champion and a former member of the Red Bull Junior Team. He is the son of motorcycle rider Mick Doohan, who is a five-time 500cc world champion.[4]

Yes I know who Jack Doohan is. I'm just not convinced he is any better than Ocon and Gasly and you suggested him as if he's some kind of Alonso in waiting. I can't see it.

Gees, rough crowd. They've given up on him before he's even started.

I'm sure he's a decent driver, it's just that we haven't heard about him the way we typically hear about future stars. Piastri has a stronger resume.

[JordanMugen]

What a load of utter nonsense, the drivers are the least of their worries, there is nothing particularly wrong with the driver line-up. Heck, put Verstappen and Hamilton in that team and they'd struggle to do much more.

You don't think having two tier-one drivers would be better than having two midfield drivers who are prone to mistakes like taking each other out of the race in Australia?

the pace is nowhere near as good as they made it out to be (they're still a long way off challenging the likes of Mercedes/Ferrari, and AM's jump has just embarrassed them even further)

By definition as tier one drivers, wouldn't Verstappen and Hamilton likely get more performance (even if it's just 2-3 tenths) out of the car than Ocon and Gasly, which can be worth up to 4-5 grid positions in the midfield?

I don't see how having two average midfield drivers is anything other than an impediment and not ideal, when rival midfield teams like Mercedes GP have two tier-one drivers (Russell and Hamilton) to constantly get those last tenths out of the car and who usually make less mistakes than Ocon and Gasly.

Yes I know who Jack Doohan is. I'm just not convinced he is any better than Ocon and Gasly and you suggested him as if he's some kind of Alonso in waiting. I can't see it.

IIRC, Jaguar made the call to save money for the 2003 season and went with Webber and Pizzonia. Alpine could make the same call to go with Martins and Doohan (500,000 EUR each), to save on Ocon and Gasly salary costs? Ultimately, that did not help Jaguar progress up the grid, but they did save money compared to Irvine and de la Rosa's salaries.

Martins seems more promising than Doohan, if Alpine were to promote only one driver IMO.

Perhaps bring in Martins as a rookie and target signing Leclerc for 2025? Assuming Martins does not disappoint and turns out to be a tier-one driver, that should give Alpine a double tier-one driver lineup to challenge for the WDC at the championship stage of their 100 race plan.

Piastri has a stronger resume.

If Piastri turns out to be tier-one driver, Alpine were not interested in promoting him in a timely manner -- instead specifying a sabbatical and then delaying a race contract offer while Piastri looked elsewhere as an uncontracted free agent, so that's on them. Best to turn attention to Martins as a future WDC in my opinion.

[Otromundo]

Taking into account the relationship that Doohan Sr had with Honda, I think that to a large extent the sporting future of his son will be at the expense of what Honda plans to do in the future. In addition to the talks that may take place between them and his father. Despite what he currently has agreed with Renault-Alpine.

Also taking into account everything expressed in relation to other alternative drivers (opinions that deserve all my respect), taking into account the special characteristics of the team, it seems to me that Pourchaire would be the perfect alternative. Despite what he currently has agreed with Sauber and whoever is possibly behind. From Alpine-Renault's perspective it would currently be the right choice for them. Always according to my way of seeing the matter without taking into account the interest of third parties and their willingness to get his signing.