He was in doubt if you listen the radio and at the end of the day if the team tells him rain is going to be light or go away in a few laps, why should he question it?.
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He was in doubt if you listen the radio and at the end of the day if the team tells him rain is going to be light or go away in a few laps, why should he question it?.
Note that the 2:10 from Max is a lap time including the pit stop. Better simply compare the gap from Max to Ocon, who pitted for Inters one lap earlier.abhi1200 wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 08:27First of all, great race. The rain mixed up things for a handful of laps before they settled down again. But I think there was a big opportunity for Aston Martin (AM) to snatch victory. Let's have a short,messy but by the numbers analysis!
Start of lap 54: The difference between Max Verstappen (MV) and Fernando Alonso (FA) is 13.3s. Rain starts to affect the race.
End of lap 54: The difference between MV and FA is 8.1s, presumably MV starts to drive extremely carefully during L54.
This is where FA and AM decide to pit. They put the medium slick tyres on, dooming FA's chances of victory. At the same time, the two Mercedes and Alpine decide to pit for intermediates.
Lap 55: Verstappen laps a 2.10.567 (similar laptimes were recorded by the Ferrari, also on slicks), since he is on slicks and the rain has intensified especially in the span of T3-T6. Alonso is not on course for a great lap as well, he has gained 4 seconds on MV in the first two sectors though. Both decide to pit at
the end of lap 55 and fit the intermediates. Now, had FA and AM fit the inters the lap earlier, he would find himself comfortably in front of MV.
At lap 55, LH dials in a 1.39.603, Ocon 1.42.379, Gasly 1.43.220, Russell spins but still laps at 1.55.804.
If we make a conservative estimation (and FA stays error-free) and dials a 1.45.x, which is slower than LH and the two Alpine, he is leading MV by 17 seconds, if we suppose similar pit stops.
Could he win the race from there? Who knows. But he would certainly had the greatest opportunity so far to win a GP after 10 years.
PS. This post is not to bush FA, or AM or whatever. They had a great race, I'm just putting some numbers there because I didn't see this being discussed in the post-race interviews. Great race, bring on Catalunya!
If team and driver is happy with the results and not complaining about their strategies then what can fans say and do. However I doubt that even with the change over to inters on the 1st stop there was a chance of win here. Fed was preserving his 2nd place and never looked to challenge for 1st which is logical from his POV given the strengths of the Aston.TimW wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 10:06Note that the 2:10 from Max is a lap time including the pit stop. Better simply compare the gap from Max to Ocon, who pitted for Inters one lap earlier.abhi1200 wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 08:27First of all, great race. The rain mixed up things for a handful of laps before they settled down again. But I think there was a big opportunity for Aston Martin (AM) to snatch victory. Let's have a short,messy but by the numbers analysis!
Start of lap 54: The difference between Max Verstappen (MV) and Fernando Alonso (FA) is 13.3s. Rain starts to affect the race.
End of lap 54: The difference between MV and FA is 8.1s, presumably MV starts to drive extremely carefully during L54.
This is where FA and AM decide to pit. They put the medium slick tyres on, dooming FA's chances of victory. At the same time, the two Mercedes and Alpine decide to pit for intermediates.
Lap 55: Verstappen laps a 2.10.567 (similar laptimes were recorded by the Ferrari, also on slicks), since he is on slicks and the rain has intensified especially in the span of T3-T6. Alonso is not on course for a great lap as well, he has gained 4 seconds on MV in the first two sectors though. Both decide to pit at
the end of lap 55 and fit the intermediates. Now, had FA and AM fit the inters the lap earlier, he would find himself comfortably in front of MV.
At lap 55, LH dials in a 1.39.603, Ocon 1.42.379, Gasly 1.43.220, Russell spins but still laps at 1.55.804.
If we make a conservative estimation (and FA stays error-free) and dials a 1.45.x, which is slower than LH and the two Alpine, he is leading MV by 17 seconds, if we suppose similar pit stops.
Could he win the race from there? Who knows. But he would certainly had the greatest opportunity so far to win a GP after 10 years.
PS. This post is not to bush FA, or AM or whatever. They had a great race, I'm just putting some numbers there because I didn't see this being discussed in the post-race interviews. Great race, bring on Catalunya!
Ocon gained about 12 seconds on Max. So Alonso would have got out ahead, but by about 5 seconds.
I am not arguing the result, my analysis also says that ALO would be in front if he had fitted inters from the start, but it wouldn't be for 17 seconds. It would be for around 1 to 6 seconds depending on the warm up of inters and how fast could Alonso go on them on his out lap. My analysis says that he could have gained 9-15 seconds on his Inters out lap, compared to VER very old mediums in lap. Taking into account that they had 8.177 seconds difference when he first pitted, i am concluding he would be 1 to 6 seconds in front, after VER had pitted.abhi1200 wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 08:27First of all, great race. The rain mixed up things for a handful of laps before they settled down again. But I think there was a big opportunity for Aston Martin (AM) to snatch victory. Let's have a short,messy but by the numbers analysis!
Start of lap 54: The difference between Max Verstappen (MV) and Fernando Alonso (FA) is 13.3s. Rain starts to affect the race.
End of lap 54: The difference between MV and FA is 8.1s, presumably MV starts to drive extremely carefully during L54.
This is where FA and AM decide to pit. They put the medium slick tyres on, dooming FA's chances of victory. At the same time, the two Mercedes and Alpine decide to pit for intermediates.
Lap 55: Verstappen laps a 2.10.567 (similar laptimes were recorded by the Ferrari, also on slicks), since he is on slicks and the rain has intensified especially in the span of T3-T6. Alonso is not on course for a great lap as well, he has gained 4 seconds on MV in the first two sectors though. Both decide to pit at
the end of lap 55 and fit the intermediates. Now, had FA and AM fit the inters the lap earlier, he would find himself comfortably in front of MV.
At lap 55, LH dials in a 1.39.603, Ocon 1.42.379, Gasly 1.43.220, Russell spins but still laps at 1.55.804.
If we make a conservative estimation (and FA stays error-free) and dials a 1.45.x, which is slower than LH and the two Alpine, he is leading MV by 17 seconds, if we suppose similar pit stops.
Could he win the race from there? Who knows. But he would certainly had the greatest opportunity so far to win a GP after 10 years.
PS. This post is not to bush FA, or AM or whatever. They had a great race, I'm just putting some numbers there because I didn't see this being discussed in the post-race interviews. Great race, bring on Catalunya!
Also, we have to take into account that Tsunoda was struggling heavily with cold brakes when on inters. He was barely able to stop the car in every corner. Probably Alonso would pulled more than 6 seconds.Bisonas wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 10:16I am not arguing the result, my analysis also says that ALO would be in front if he had fitted inters from the start, but it wouldn't be for 17 seconds. It would be for around 1 to 6 seconds depending on the warm up of inters and how fast could Alonso go on them on his out lap. My analysis says that he could have gained 9-15 seconds on his Inters out lap, compared to VER very old mediums in lap. Taking into account that they had 8.177 seconds difference when he first pitted, i am concluding he would be 1 to 6 seconds in front, after VER had pitted.abhi1200 wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 08:27First of all, great race. The rain mixed up things for a handful of laps before they settled down again. But I think there was a big opportunity for Aston Martin (AM) to snatch victory. Let's have a short,messy but by the numbers analysis!
Start of lap 54: The difference between Max Verstappen (MV) and Fernando Alonso (FA) is 13.3s. Rain starts to affect the race.
End of lap 54: The difference between MV and FA is 8.1s, presumably MV starts to drive extremely carefully during L54.
This is where FA and AM decide to pit. They put the medium slick tyres on, dooming FA's chances of victory. At the same time, the two Mercedes and Alpine decide to pit for intermediates.
Lap 55: Verstappen laps a 2.10.567 (similar laptimes were recorded by the Ferrari, also on slicks), since he is on slicks and the rain has intensified especially in the span of T3-T6. Alonso is not on course for a great lap as well, he has gained 4 seconds on MV in the first two sectors though. Both decide to pit at
the end of lap 55 and fit the intermediates. Now, had FA and AM fit the inters the lap earlier, he would find himself comfortably in front of MV.
At lap 55, LH dials in a 1.39.603, Ocon 1.42.379, Gasly 1.43.220, Russell spins but still laps at 1.55.804.
If we make a conservative estimation (and FA stays error-free) and dials a 1.45.x, which is slower than LH and the two Alpine, he is leading MV by 17 seconds, if we suppose similar pit stops.
Could he win the race from there? Who knows. But he would certainly had the greatest opportunity so far to win a GP after 10 years.
PS. This post is not to bush FA, or AM or whatever. They had a great race, I'm just putting some numbers there because I didn't see this being discussed in the post-race interviews. Great race, bring on Catalunya!
My analysis is based on Yuki Tsunoda times because he pitted almost the same time as ALO so they where running the same part of the track with ALO on similar conditions. Analyzing the In lap sector times of VER on old mediums, the out lap sector times of ALO on new mediums, and the out lap sector times of Tsunoda on new Inters, gives you the above result.
Just to give you an example of what happened, VER did 55.513 sector 2 on his in lap with very old mediums, ALO did 51.697 on his fresh mediums out lap, and TSU did 47.660 on his Inters out lap.
So yea, if TSU gained 7.8sec compared to VER on Sector 2 alone, i am sure ALO on inters combining all the sectors of his out lap, would have gained somewhere around 9-15 seconds. That would have brought him 1 to 6 seconds ahead of VER.
And i am being conservative here.
a pit stop alone only costs around 19s in Monaco, though. So AmuS got their numbers wrong this time.
Pit is 19 s in the dry. Wet requires a slower entry at rascasse. Slower entry to the box, slower exit of the box, and slower exit through the turn 1 right hander. That may account for 5 seconds or more.
yeah, could be the reason for a bigger number indeed, but that part of the track turned wet fairly late, and you'd also lose speed on track due to the smaller advantage over pit lane speed. Hard to say, because both Alonso and Verstappen pitted for Inters during the same lap:AR3-GP wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 14:40Pit is 19 s in the dry. Wet requires a slower entry at rascasse. Slower entry to the box, slower exit of the box, and slower exit through the turn 1 right hander. That may account for 5 seconds or more.
Joining the boat of "Alonso will never drive for McLaren again" guys
I wouldn't read too much into anything that was said publicly. In public they have to defend the team and the brand. In private they can speak more freely.peewon wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 18:46Its weird that both AM and Fernando were insisting after the race that it was the right call at the moment when everyone behind them made the opposite call. Sure, maybe the conditions changed drastically but if you're unsure, you just have to wait for another lap. Maybe its face saving, but it was a clear and obvious error by everyone involved. Even Horner said after the race that "AM let them off the hook" with that decision.
https://www.racefans.net/2023/05/28/alo ... -the-hook/
They didn't have the pace but luck provided them an opportunity to win a race and they blew it. They made some questionable decisions on strategy in previous races as well but it didn't make a difference as they've been comfortably behind RBs and comfortably ahead of everyone else usually. Clearly an area that needs to be looked at for improvement.
