sucof wrote: ↑05 Jun 2023, 22:15
Andi76 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2023, 19:47
sucof wrote: ↑05 Jun 2023, 18:11
Great write!
Do you think that they have acceleration sensors in the tyres, or in the wheels?
Studying those along with the infrared cameras and suspension movements, + vehicle dynamics could be eye opening.
I do not think that acceleration sensors are generally used in tires or wheels. Unfortunately, since the end of the tire war between Michelin and Bridgestone, Formula 1 has taken a step backwards in this respect. At the time of the tire war, Ferrari, for example, had its own "Tyre Dynamics" department, which was subordinate to the Vehicle Dynamics department and in which 8-10 engineers were concerned only with the tyres and everything that had to do with them. The tyres were then an important part of the design process and fully integrated into it. There was even extensive analysis done on the different road surfaces and road conditions to best match the vehicle and suspension to them. After the end of the tyre war, almost all teams disbanded their Tyre Dynamics departments because many of the bosses (at Ferrari Montezemolo) thought that they were now superfluous since it was the same for everyone anyway. Red Bull kept this department while most of the other teams just assigned one or two engineers to create a model for the simulations and do a few simulations. Compared to before, this was like night and day and a lot of knowledge has been lost over the years. And despite their obvious importance, much of the tyre business is neglected in F1. For example, as far as the interaction between tyres and the various road surfaces is concerned and their influence on the compound, where there is certainly a lot of potential, today's knowledge in F1 is frighteningly low, as I know from someone with first-hand experience. Therefore, I can not imagine that they use acceleration sensors in tyres or wheels.
Hm, that was a very silly decision then, and how interesting is that RB kept them and look at their dominance now...
I mean, if a tyre is a huge differentiator, and it is, why makes it sense to ignore that whole piece of the puzzle, just because the tyres are the same? One might argue, that if the tyres are the same, controlling them makes even more sense than before...
Perhaps Ferrari shall rehire the "old" guys from that department.
The problem is that the old people, i.e. Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne, Aldo Costa and Marco Fainello would not go back to Ferrari. Ross has retired and is also at an age where you don't start such a task anymore. Rory is still a consultant at Ferrari, but he works from Thailand and only part-time, so he has no real influence on such things anymore. Although he certainly recommends it over and over again, it's just like the car itself - if they don't listen to him.... others like Marco Fainello or Aldo Costa had their reasons to leave Ferrari or in the case of Aldo not to return to Ferrari after dealing with him in a certain way. The strategic foresight and experience of these people that you can get great benefits from the tires even with an sole supplier, as well as the knowledge and experience from the tire war would certainly help a lot, but as I said it is not an option because none of them will come back. In general, it is completely incomprehensible why Ferrari does not change anything on the suspensions, because in my opinion the problem can only lie there. Everything worked wonderfully until TD039 and since then they have been using a much stiffer set-up. The increased contact frequencies are probably to blame for the tire problems. However, it must also be said that if it were that simple, Ferrari would probably have already changed something here. The problem here could be that the aerodynamics of the underbody prevents this. The philosophy is still to use the maximum ground effect with the floor. To do this, you have to drive as low as possible, which is only possible with a stiffer suspension since Ferraris flex-floors practically was "banned". One might say that Ferrari would not have limited itself in this way and would certainly have changed the concept here. But the point here is that with TD039 they had only two options - either to start from scratch and get virtually thrown back to April 2021 (where they started with the design of the ground effect cars and the underbody), which would have set the team back a year, or to try to make the current design work despite the limitations and somehow solve the problems that arose. So I think the explanation why Ferrari chose this path also explains Red Bull's dominance, as it also gave them a big head start in development. Because Red Bull's floor concept was completely accommodated by all this and while others were busy fixing the effects of the TD039 on their concept, which had suddenly gone from right to wrong, Red Bull, whose concept was thus crowned the absolutely right one, could simply continue to develop undisturbed.
Another big problem Ferrari has is that the really good people know that the problems that exist at Ferrari make it practically impossible to be successful (in the sense of winning world championships). For this it would need the same as in 1997, an axis of several people who have the power to protect the racing team from the interference of Vigna and Elkan, so that the team can work calmly and in one direction, that brings stability and continuity, as well as the necessary mentality and self-confidence and the communication and organization and the methodologies necessary to develop a F1 car at a faster rate than the competition. The top people are well aware of these problems. And also that they cannot change this on their own. This requires a united front of team principal, driver, and technical director, one of whom must be almost irreplaceable, otherwise the necessary power cannot be achieved.
I think Lecrerc style is better, degradation is key on current F1, so being kind with tires is a huge benefit. But everything has some positives and some negatives, and in this particular case with a cold track wich was damp few minutes earlier, this characteristic did bite Lecrerc in the ass. But still a better/more beneficial style in general if you ask me
Unless you are a mechanic in the garage sharing some inside information with us, coming on F1Technical forum in your tea time, how are you so sure that it was definitely a tyre temp issue when the mechanics aren't even sure.To me it is obvious it is a tire temperature problem, he didn´t manage to put right tires on temperature
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