2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Vanja #66]

Sainz is performing better than leclerc this season

Russell is performing better than Hamilton again this season, but you don't see it in points since Russell's car and his team weren't up to the job a few times. Same with Leclerc and Sainz.

[catent]

It is strange that they did not find problems on the simulator with the suspension, at least looks like that from that they said.
That probably means that their correlation is poor.

If it's really the case what Andi said, that they didn't have a tyre department for a while, it's not as surprising. Modelling tyres for any simulation is very, very hard work and requires a lot of attention, time and correlation data.

https://storage.googleapis.com/fp-media ... 62x662.jpg

I get why they compared best laps from two seasons, but we can't look over the fact Leclerc was 3.5 tenths faster than Sainz last year in first two sectors, skewing all the findings highly in favour of Mercedes and Red Bull.

Sainz is performing better than leclerc this season

I don’t think this is necessarily true. Open to a lot of context, circumstance, and subjective interpretation.

[organic]

It is strange that they did not find problems on the simulator with the suspension, at least looks like that from that they said.
That probably means that their correlation is poor.

If it's really the case what Andi said, that they didn't have a tyre department for a while, it's not as surprising. Modelling tyres for any simulation is very, very hard work and requires a lot of attention, time and correlation data.

https://storage.googleapis.com/fp-media ... 62x662.jpg

I get why they compared best laps from two seasons, but we can't look over the fact Leclerc was 3.5 tenths faster than Sainz last year in first two sectors, skewing all the findings highly in favour of Mercedes and Red Bull.

Sainz is performing better than leclerc this season

Without the engine failure at Bahrain and grid drop at Monaco due to Xavi, Leclerc would have 3 podiums to Sainz's 0 (not to mention the points that sainz inherited due to charles' misfortunes)

Charles also was close to a Monaco pole which could've been a Ferrari win in another world. Only 2 hundredths off Alonso.

It's a tale as old as time with leclerc & sainz. Sainz beat Leclerc on points in '21 but leclerc's season was far better. Same is true here so far.

Leclerc is the benchmark in Ferrari. It's very rare that sainz consistently beats Charles consistently for an entire weekend. Don't let the recent Spain's wild pace deficit of charles' car affect your opinion disproportionately

[FDD]

It is strange that they did not find problems on the simulator with the suspension, at least looks like that from that they said.
That probably means that their correlation is poor.

If it's really the case what Andi said, that they didn't have a tyre department for a while, it's not as surprising. Modelling tyres for any simulation is very, very hard work and requires a lot of attention, time and correlation data.

Yes, I forget that moment for the missing tire department which is crucial and Andy mention it several times.

[Xyz22]

If it's really the case what Andi said, that they didn't have a tyre department for a while, it's not as surprising. Modelling tyres for any simulation is very, very hard work and requires a lot of attention, time and correlation data.




I get why they compared best laps from two seasons, but we can't look over the fact Leclerc was 3.5 tenths faster than Sainz last year in first two sectors, skewing all the findings highly in favour of Mercedes and Red Bull.

Sainz is performing better than leclerc this season

Without the engine failure at Bahrain and grid drop at Monaco due to Xavi, Leclerc would have 3 podiums to Sainz's 0 (not to mention the points that sainz inherited due to charles' misfortunes)

Charles also was close to a Monaco pole which could've been a Ferrari win in another world. Only 2 hundredths off Alonso.

It's a tale as old as time with leclerc & sainz. Sainz beat Leclerc on points in '21 but leclerc's season was far better. Same is true here so far.

Leclerc is the benchmark in Ferrari. It's very rare that sainz consistently beats Charles consistently for an entire weekend. Don't let the recent Spain's wild pace deficit of charles' car affect your opinion disproportionately

In the race there was actually pretty much no deficit outside the first stint in which clearly the car wasn't working correctly with the hard tyres.

[Henri]

Sainz is performing better than leclerc this season

Russell is performing better than Hamilton again this season, but you don't see it in points since Russell's car and his team weren't up to the job a few times. Same with Leclerc and Sainz.

.. what does Hamilton have to do with sainz getting the best out of car .

[Henri]

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Sainz out qualifyed and had better pace than leclerc in spain.. sainz a smooth operator

Mod edit- please remember to use the edit function within a response string

[Alonsismo]

If it's really the case what Andi said, that they didn't have a tyre department for a while, it's not as surprising. Modelling tyres for any simulation is very, very hard work and requires a lot of attention, time and correlation data.




I get why they compared best laps from two seasons, but we can't look over the fact Leclerc was 3.5 tenths faster than Sainz last year in first two sectors, skewing all the findings highly in favour of Mercedes and Red Bull.

Sainz is performing better than leclerc this season

Without the engine failure at Bahrain and grid drop at Monaco due to Xavi, Leclerc would have 3 podiums to Sainz's 0 (not to mention the points that sainz inherited due to charles' misfortunes)

Charles also was close to a Monaco pole which could've been a Ferrari win in another world. Only 2 hundredths off Alonso.

It's a tale as old as time with leclerc & sainz. Sainz beat Leclerc on points in '21 but leclerc's season was far better. Same is true here so far.

Leclerc is the benchmark in Ferrari. It's very rare that sainz consistently beats Charles consistently for an entire weekend. Don't let the recent Spain's wild pace deficit of charles' car affect your opinion disproportionately

if if if if

[organic]

Sainz is performing better than leclerc this season

Without the engine failure at Bahrain and grid drop at Monaco due to Xavi, Leclerc would have 3 podiums to Sainz's 0 (not to mention the points that sainz inherited due to charles' misfortunes)

Charles also was close to a Monaco pole which could've been a Ferrari win in another world. Only 2 hundredths off Alonso.

It's a tale as old as time with leclerc & sainz. Sainz beat Leclerc on points in '21 but leclerc's season was far better. Same is true here so far.

Leclerc is the benchmark in Ferrari. It's very rare that sainz consistently beats Charles consistently for an entire weekend. Don't let the recent Spain's wild pace deficit of charles' car affect your opinion disproportionately

if if if if

And none of the ifs are down to Charles.

We should judge on performance rather than a table, otherwise unfavourable situations occur.

Say you're the team boss and judge just looking at the wdc table. Naturally coming into '22 you will favour Carlos as leader of the team since he comfortably beat Charles in '21 in his first year at the team in an unfamiliar team, setup etc. And he has now had time to settle in, so surely he'll be even better..

Oh wait, Charles completely wiped the floor with Carlos last year as soon as the car was good.

[Henri]

Without the engine failure at Bahrain and grid drop at Monaco due to Xavi, Leclerc would have 3 podiums to Sainz's 0 (not to mention the points that sainz inherited due to charles' misfortunes)

Charles also was close to a Monaco pole which could've been a Ferrari win in another world. Only 2 hundredths off Alonso.

It's a tale as old as time with leclerc & sainz. Sainz beat Leclerc on points in '21 but leclerc's season was far better. Same is true here so far.

Leclerc is the benchmark in Ferrari. It's very rare that sainz consistently beats Charles consistently for an entire weekend. Don't let the recent Spain's wild pace deficit of charles' car affect your opinion disproportionately

if if if if

And none of the ifs are down to Charles.

We should judge on performance rather than a table, otherwise unfavourable situations occur.

Say you're the team boss and judge just looking at the wdc table. Naturally coming into '22 you will favour Carlos as leader of the team since he comfortably beat Charles in '21 in his first year at the team in an unfamiliar team, setup etc. And he has now had time to settle in, so surely he'll be even better..

Oh wait, Charles completely wiped the floor with Carlos last year as soon as the car was good.

Sainz is trusted more by the team.. which is obvious

[Zynerji]

LeClerc has cost Ferrari more in parts replacement than Mick has with HAAS.

Not a.huge fan of win or bin. That's Charles' way.

[organic]

LeClerc has cost Ferrari more in parts replacement than Mick has with HAAS.

Not a.huge fan of win or bin. That's Charles' way.

Carlos had a large shunt at Monaco . Probably more costly than what Charles has done this season given how hard Carlos' was into metal barrier rather than tecpro.

[Vanja #66]

.. what does Hamilton have to do with sainz getting the best out of car .

Both are performing worse than team mates, but got more points with better luck. It will turn around, it's a long season.

[IntrinsicVoid]

Last year Leclerc was able to secure his win even with front wing damage at Silverstone, but I still didn’t get why they pitted Carlos instead of him and ruined his chance of victory.

Also please don’t come to me with some statements from Binotto or Rueda, it was a rhetorical question. I want to leave this out of the way since I get the same vibe of some people here and the strategy department of Ferrari.

Also it’s surprising and very strange to limit yourself and think that the performance of Leclerc in Spain wasn’t caused by his car’s issues and at the same time confidently participating in this forum.

[mzso]

Does it look like it just to me or did Ferrari not improve at all with these new upgrades? Mercedes certainly jumped them. Leclerc couldn't even reach points, and he only needed to overtake backfielders and the latter half of the midfield.

Their post-race reactions point to them being trully shocked the updates didn't solve the problems they expected at all. Updates were never made to make the car faster, but provide more consistency in the race regarding tyre behaviour. Aero updates don't directly influence tyres of course, so my guess is they wanted to try different suspension settings and updated parts allowed them to explore this area without hurting aerodynamic performance. Seeing what updates were aimed at, they expected better consistency of floor performance in the rear corner area.

That's a form of being faster. Kind of sad that they're clueless and lost apparently

They didn't say updates made things worse of course, but they underestimated the in-race tyre management issue they have (or believed some changes in suspension setup could make up for that). Overall, as I repeatedly pointed out since the Bahrain Q - downforce and aerodynamics is not the core problem of the 2023 car, the suspension is. The only aero problem they have is insufficient front wing downforce. Since their front wing has the smallest planform area of any car (and a lot, lot smaller area than 2022 car) it's not like it's an impossible problem to solve. Them not prioritising it means it's not the biggest problem of the car and it clearly isn't.

What do you base this on? That they mainly have suspension issues, or at all? I consider it highly unlikely that they don't have a hefty aero handicap. By the looks of it Ferrari and Williams has the dumbest, plainest floor.