Do you have the data for the fuel adjusted laps? I am just curiousVanja #66 wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 19:59I was 100% sure he was again full of it, but when you compare the laps on compounds and correct them for fuel both Ferraris were on equal footing with Max. But, again, it was a colder race than usual and this must have helped them.
Same tyres in Baku, but Sainz struggled a lot there, so the softest range available is not really a guarantee for the team.
What Nugnes writes is always interesting, sometimes wrong (like everyone often is), but people always claim he's a fiction writer and invents things all the time when a lot of what he says makes sense.SoulPancake13 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2023, 17:07Interesting from Nugnes. He says during the tyre tests, Ferrari found a new setup with slightly higher ride height and softer suspension. Also, they change how the electric power is delivered to preserve the tyres. Article here: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10485504/
Truth detected in thereKimiRai wrote: ↑20 Jun 2023, 17:24What Nugnes writes is always interesting, sometimes wrong (like everyone often is), but people always claim he's a fiction writer and invents things all the time when a lot of what he says makes sense. Ferrari fans...SoulPancake13 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2023, 17:07Interesting from Nugnes. He says during the tyre tests, Ferrari found a new setup with slightly higher ride height and softer suspension. Also, they change how the electric power is delivered to preserve the tyres. Article here: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10485504/
I agree. This back and forth has dragged for a few weeks now. The forums is a drag to sift through looking for posts relevant to the Ferrari team at present.CaribouBread wrote:This has gone far too long, just use the ignore button guys. Nothing productive is happening in this discourse. Makes the forum a slog to read through multiple pages of agenda pushing.
I personally think that Nugnes is good in analysis of past events, but very bad when he tends to predict things expecially when he tries to anticipate new bits coming in Ferrari 's car.KimiRai wrote: ↑20 Jun 2023, 17:24What Nugnes writes is always interesting, sometimes wrong (like everyone often is), but people always claim he's a fiction writer and invents things all the time when a lot of what he says makes sense.SoulPancake13 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2023, 17:07Interesting from Nugnes. He says during the tyre tests, Ferrari found a new setup with slightly higher ride height and softer suspension. Also, they change how the electric power is delivered to preserve the tyres. Article here: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10485504/
Sainz took the lead at the restart because Ferrari decided not to bring both cars in for softs and left Leclerc out on hards while everybody behind him pitted for softs. Then they asked Sainz to build a gap to protect Charles due to all the other cars being on softs. Sainz refused sensing a chance for his first win, and immediately passed Charles. Others quickly followed.Andres125sx wrote: ↑20 Jun 2023, 12:30What race did you watch at Silverstone in 2022?AR3-GP wrote: ↑20 Jun 2023, 12:07Yes. Silverstone 2022 and Brazil 2022 at Ferrari to favor Sainz.Andres125sx wrote: ↑20 Jun 2023, 08:01BTW, there´s any precedent of a F1 team providing TOs to favour the driver with fewer points in the table?
The only TO was to let Lecrerc pass, not the other way around
Then at the restart Sainz took the lead again as he was faster than Lecrerc, who dropped back and even got passed by Hamilton and Perez
Final result: Sainz p1, Lecrerc p4
Are you suggesting Ferrari should have renounced to victory to favour Lecrerc and finish Lecrerc P3 and Sainz p4 instead of P1 and p4?
It's a really rudimentary fuel adjustment, here's my reasoning (very conservative):SoulPancake13 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2023, 16:53Do you have the data for the fuel adjusted laps? I am just curious
Ah got it, makes sense to me! Thank you for the explanation : )Vanja #66 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2023, 22:13It's a really rudimentary fuel adjustment, here's my reasoning (very conservative):SoulPancake13 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2023, 16:53Do you have the data for the fuel adjusted laps? I am just curious
- Max' final quick lap on Medium (1st stint) was 17.268 on lap 11
- Leclerc's first truly quick lap after SC on Mediums was 17.0 on lap 19 (Sainz about the same)
- Race was 70 laps, roughly 95kg of fuel gets burned, so roughly 1.35kg per lap, so roughly 10kg for 8 laps apart (it was actually less than that due to SC, but let's not complicate too much)
- Assuming the same state of tires for Max' lap 11 and Leclerc's lap 19 (again, not really, but we avoid complications)
- 10kg of fuel is roughly estimated at 3 tenths per lap usually, let's say at this track it's 2 tenths (short lap, rear-limited, no long high-speed corners)
- Max's time on lap 11 less 2 tenths is just shy of Leclerc's time on lap 19
Same algorithm for lap times on Hards, this time with few laps on those tyres so we are sure they were up to temperature:
- Max' lap 25 time was 16.682, Leclerc's 15.907 on lap 47
- 22 laps is 30kg of fuel, so roughly 6 tenths
- Max' lap 25 less 6 tenths is 2 tenths slower than Leclerc's lap 47 corrected for fuel
I have to say, Max was clipping his top speed a lot until 10-15 laps to the end, so it looks like he was controlling his pace without slowing down in corners that would make the tyres cool down. That said, it doesn't look like he lost more than 2-3 tenths in total with that clipping, so it's hard to tell what was going on.
Was he? The one in the back always thinks so. But when the one in front stops managing pace, often they're suddenly not.
Yeah, but sometimes stuff like this are uploaded to streaming platforms.JPower wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 23:12Only F1TV.mzso wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 23:03Is there a video around of the lap in question?SharkY wrote: ↑19 Jun 2023, 11:33
You can actually know pretty well, why he was slow, if you look at his replay and telemetry. He understeered into T2, where he lost 0,5s to HAM and ALO, went on to have a pretty good rest of the lap (on par with ALO and made up that loss to HAM), but unfortunately rode the curb in T13 a bit too much and it cost him another 0,2s, which put him behind HAM. He had a good lap on softs which would get him into Q3, but unfortunately cut the T13.
What's sad for me is that Charles seems not to have much of a confidence in the car in wet. He struggled much in this quali, struggled in Spain quali and his Monaco wet run wasn't that great either. Hopefully the next updates would suit him better.