2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
09 Aug 2023, 23:19
issey wrote:
09 Aug 2023, 18:51
That makes a lot of sense to me
Typically, when teams do something that is in the "grey area" of the rules, they ask the FIA in advance. I wonder if this is one of those times where the FIA initially gave a thumbs up that later got challenges from other teams and reversed their decision?
What's interesting is that if you go back to that post with the commentary about "deflection" (which we had a brief discussion over), he names both Aston and Mercedes.
A lion must kill its prey.

issey
issey
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
09 Aug 2023, 23:19
issey wrote:
09 Aug 2023, 18:51
That makes a lot of sense to me
Typically, when teams do something that is in the "grey area" of the rules, they ask the FIA in advance. I wonder if this is one of those times where the FIA initially gave a thumbs up that later got challenges from other teams and reversed their decision?
The same Aston Martin news twitter account explained it:

💥🟢| Was the Aston Martin front wing illegal or why did Aston Martin allegedly have to change it?

👉Already at the beginning of the season, the FIA began to closely observe the evolutions of the teams, especially in the front wings and their different specific compositions.

👉The front wings had no problem in passing all the technical controls in static, something that changed completely in full action on the track.

👉The FIA began to receive images of some of those elements that were flexible, especially the flaps, and that were able to change up to their angle of incidence depending on the speed they carried and of course the established downforce.

👉 It is even said that the teams received an official notification signed by Nikolas Tombazis himself (A FIA single-seater director) in which they were asked to remove those flexible flaps and quickly correct the solution they had found. Among the teams that received the letter was Aston Martin.

👉The FIA could not declare those flexible AMR23 and other single-seaters "illegal", since they all perfectly complied with the rules established in the technical checks prior to each Grand Prix.

👉But they found a point at which to set their request for change. Article 3.2.2 of the technical regulations of the F1 World Championship:

"All aerodynamic or body components that affect the aerodynamic performance of the car must be fixed and immobile with respect to their reference defined in article 3.3. In addition, these components must have a uniform, solid, hard, continuous and impermeable surface in all circumstances.“

👉Regulation in hand, the FIA began to act, and that directly affected Aston Martin. With this, the advantage generated perhaps in all the hours worked in the wind tunnel was lost throughout the first months of the season. A time when the Silverstone team had more hours than its rivals because of the seventh final position in the 2022 constructors' world championship.

-wkst-
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Location: Austria

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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It's just a twitter account of an ALO fan boy, no - absolutely no - insider news.
I find such accounts useful collecting real articles from real journalists about the car/team. But the "news" that the updates in Canada didn't work because of the new front wing was nowhere in any media - just speculations of a fan boy. Like I or someone else here claims that...

KimiRai
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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If the news are true, regardless of the time lost and windtunnel/CFD resources, we can be optimistic that for the second consecutive year the team finds something on the regs that others don't. It shows there is a lot of grey matter in the aero department as you would expect with Fallows in charge and a very strong staff. This is a very good sign.
Last edited by KimiRai on 10 Aug 2023, 21:37, edited 1 time in total.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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KimiRai wrote:
10 Aug 2023, 21:33
If the news are true, regardless of the time lost and windtunnel/CFD resources, we can be optimistic that for the second consecutive year the team finds something on the regs that others don't. It shows there is a lot of grey matter in the aero department as you would expect with Fallows, Blandin and the rest in charge. This is a very good sign.
True, but it also shows the FIA respond with zero discretion and total impunity to screw over your season.
A lion must kill its prey.

KimiRai
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
10 Aug 2023, 21:35
True, but it also shows the FIA respond with zero discretion and total impunity to screw over your season.
For the most part that doesn't depend on you so the referee will do what it wants. I'm just pointing out a good thing in all of this.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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It's a shame we never got to see the real performance of the Canada upgrade, running in concert with the front wing it was intended for.
A lion must kill its prey.

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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
10 Aug 2023, 21:45
It's a shame we never got to see the real performance of the Canada upgrade, running in concert with the front wing it was intended for.
would have won Canada at the very least

KimiRai
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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The past is the past. What's important is the team increasingly has the right personnel to become world champions if all the other pieces fall in place. Don't want to jinx it of course.

issey
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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-wkst- wrote:
10 Aug 2023, 07:29
It's just a twitter account of an ALO fan boy, no - absolutely no - insider news.
I find such accounts useful collecting real articles from real journalists about the car/team. But the "news" that the updates in Canada didn't work because of the new front wing was nowhere in any media - just speculations of a fan boy. Like I or someone else here claims that...
If you really researched what the account posts, you would see that almost all of his posts are backed up with sources.... this account was the first to report on the FIA and front wing thing, and then all the others followed, including Motorsport.com

And if you add up all the reports, what the account says here makes a lot of sense.

-wkst-
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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As I said, I honour his/her work, collecting the media reports.

But there was nowhere one single report in the media that the updates in Canada failed because of the (forced?) front wing change in Spain. That's just pure speculation of this random account.

Maybe his/her suspect is true, maybe not.

ALO_Power
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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So the new front wing was forced by FIA and wasn't intended by Aston Martin? Was the previous front wing declared illegal and why?
Sorry, I missed this part.

nowaysthatsreal
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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The speculations are so insane, everyone is jus adding to the hearsay.

They were looking to work on their weaknesses but lost few points on car stability. And it’s not difficult to get the calibration wrong. Most top teams who started behind got it wrong too despite not much changes in regulations from last year eg McL, Merc, Alpine and Ferrari.

Developing car can have its ups and downs, team will bounce back from this

issey
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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KimiRai
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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https://www.racefans.net/2023/08/16/tea ... its-krack/

Teams will need “drastic steps” on chassis to suit 2026 power units – Krack

Aston Martin team principal Mike Krack says he shares Red Bull counterpart Christian Horner’s concerns over Formula 1’s 2026 power unit regulations.

Red Bull’s Horner has repeatedly expressed worries this year about the power unit regulations set to be introduced in 2026. Although 1.6-litre V6 engines will be retained, the power unit designs will see heavily revised as F1 plans to drop the MGU-H element and greatly increases electrical power as a proportion of overall output.
Horner suggested that the rules risk creating “Frankenstein” cars and could lead to undesirable driving situations where drivers would have to shift down on long straights to maximise power unit performance. Reigning world champion Max Verstappen has also said the current regulations would produce “terrible” cars based on Red Bull’s early simulator analysis.

In an exclusive conversation with RaceFans, Krack was asked whether the 2026 regulations were a concern to him and his response was: “Yes, it is.”

“It is for all of us,” he continued. “I think the engine manufacturers – or the PU manufacturers that we have to call them – together with the FIA, they made this set of regulations believing that the chassis can follow. And then we have seen that we have to take some drastic steps on the chassis regulations to make it work. But it is technically possible.

“That is why I always say let’s work together in the interests of the whole thing to make it work. I’m quite confident that we can find a set of regs that will make it work and that everybody will be happy with.”

Aston Martin will move on from a long-term partnership with Mercedes predating the 1.6L V6 era when the 2026 power unit formula comes into effect as they switch supplier to Honda. Krack says that his team are already involved in heavy discussions with the Japanese manufacturer about the new power units.

“There is a dialogue on all fronts,” he said. “Be it from sporting – how many passes do you need – be it what structure you need in the paddock, do we sit together, do we do separate, these kind of things because they also have long, long lead times.

“But then it’s also about how is the packaging of the engine in a ’26 chassis from what we know so far. So these are these preliminary talks. You discuss basically from sporting, finance, technical, the whole areas, we all have defined partners or business partners. And the collaboration has started there with discussions regularly. We try to see each other here and there.”

Despite Honda infamously struggling during the early years of the hybrid turbo V6 era after they rejoined F1 as a power unit supplier in 2015, Krack says he is “very confident” that Honda will deliver a strong power unit in 2026.

“I’m very confident because from what I see Honda is fantastic, they are real racers,” Krack said. “They push everything and you see, they are giving the world championship engine.

“It is more about being humble, like how can we cope and how can we maintain a high level with them. But there is no prejudice at all, from what I have seen so far I’m very impressed.”