2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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napoleon1981
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
26 Aug 2023, 22:59
Chuckjr wrote:
26 Aug 2023, 22:44
Max just giving everyone a beat down. I actually thought RB was making him look better than he is (like we’ve watched many times before), but clearly Max is a hell of a talent. 1.3 seconds over Checo? Dam. That’s Schumacheresque. Schumacher used to destroy his team mates no matter who they put against him at Benetton or Ferrari. We haven’t seen something like that since. I look forward to seeing the next driver RB hires.

Love to see Williams more competitive. F1 is a better series the better they do. Same with Macca. Great job from both teams. Merc team failed Lewis. Great job Russell. Ferrari is lost at sea. Sad. Shal will look back on his time at Ferrari and contemplate what might have been.
You have to have proper teammates for this to have any proper meaning really! Neither Perez nor Barrichello are proper teammates! Schumacher never even had a champion teammate (other than Rosberg at the end probably)…not to mention a whole team built around him!

Senna doing this thing to Prost and beating him by 1,5 seconds for example really is an achievement! Same goes for Jim Clark and Graham Hill and Lewis and Nico…!

Max isn’t doing anything special at the moment! He’s got the equipment and no opposition to do it! Back in 2021 even with an equally fast (many times faster) car he couldn’t even get more poles than Hamilton…
Thats the problem with Schumacher and Max. The team mates altough significantly rated before they get next to them, end up being dumpstered and dont turn ito Sennas or Prosts. Albon 4th in the williams today, was absolutely dismantled vs Max.

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organic
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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ringo
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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napoleon1981 wrote:
27 Aug 2023, 00:12
AMG.Tzan wrote:
26 Aug 2023, 22:59
Chuckjr wrote:
26 Aug 2023, 22:44
Max just giving everyone a beat down. I actually thought RB was making him look better than he is (like we’ve watched many times before), but clearly Max is a hell of a talent. 1.3 seconds over Checo? Dam. That’s Schumacheresque. Schumacher used to destroy his team mates no matter who they put against him at Benetton or Ferrari. We haven’t seen something like that since. I look forward to seeing the next driver RB hires.

Love to see Williams more competitive. F1 is a better series the better they do. Same with Macca. Great job from both teams. Merc team failed Lewis. Great job Russell. Ferrari is lost at sea. Sad. Shal will look back on his time at Ferrari and contemplate what might have been.
You have to have proper teammates for this to have any proper meaning really! Neither Perez nor Barrichello are proper teammates! Schumacher never even had a champion teammate (other than Rosberg at the end probably)…not to mention a whole team built around him!

Senna doing this thing to Prost and beating him by 1,5 seconds for example really is an achievement! Same goes for Jim Clark and Graham Hill and Lewis and Nico…!

Max isn’t doing anything special at the moment! He’s got the equipment and no opposition to do it! Back in 2021 even with an equally fast (many times faster) car he couldn’t even get more poles than Hamilton…
Thats the problem with Schumacher and Max. The team mates altough significantly rated before they get next to them, end up being dumpstered and dont turn ito Sennas or Prosts. Albon 4th in the williams today, was absolutely dismantled vs Max.
I dont think redbull handled albon, gasly well at all. They all were in a bad place mentally when the drove for redbull. So i dont really count their times at redbull as representative of their potential. I think most have accepted that they flourished when they left. So them being beaten by Max is pretty much like beating up on a rookie who has Helmut Marko shouting at them three times a day.
Anyhow 1.3s over Perez is very telling. I would drop Perezfor this alone. He clearly is flustered at this point or is simply not gelling with the team. It's almost as if there is a commincation barrier as the weekend develops for them to get the best out of each other. He was smashed.
For Sure!!

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organic
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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Always some other explanations :D it's great to hear the justifications and mental gymnastics some will do to attempt to discredit

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Chuckjr
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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You’re not kidding.
Watching F1 since 1986.

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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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organic wrote:
27 Aug 2023, 02:42
Always some other explanations :D it's great to hear the justifications and mental gymnastics some will do to attempt to discredit
It's somewhat amusing to see even the establishment try and hint at untoward activities by RB.

Toto Wolff called the gap to Perez "odd".
And Wolff cannot fathom how a multi-time grand prix winner in Perez can be so far adrift of Verstappen when driving the same Red Bull RB19.

“Odd, bizarre,” said Wolff of that gap when speaking to media including PlanetF1.com following qualifying.

“We’ve seen that Max has destroyed every single team-mate that was with him, whether it’s his ability to create a car around himself, that is just very tricky to control but fast if you can, and that creates those gaps, the 1.3.

“Checo’s not an idiot. We have seen in all these years Checo is a grand prix winner, multiple grand prix winner, and he was at Racing Point, so I cannot comprehend [it].

At the 2020 Styrian GP when Hamilton put a 1.5 seconds gap between himself and Bottas in damp conditions, Toto simply called it "out of this world" and praised Hamilton. He didn't say it was odd, or that Hamilton had built the car around himself...

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-moto ... KKCN24C0QC


Verstappen's form has done untold amounts of damage to the opposition...They've lost their sense of up from down. In many respects, the quality of commentary reflects the level of success and discontent with that success.
A lion must kill its prey.

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ringo
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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Well Toto knows he's given fair treatment and equal attention and cars to his drivers.
He will find the perez gap odd.
I dont think he thinks perez car is rigged.

Perez to me is just lost and it seems his side of the garage isnt too interested in him finding his way. What's the point? To beat Max? Makes no sense refine Perez. The car is fast enough to deliver a podium anyway even if its not fine tuned.
For Sure!!

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mclaren111
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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chrisc90 wrote:
26 Aug 2023, 19:57
3 place drop for Yuki.

Pretty harsh in my opinion

Agreed... FIA's favouritism at work again... :oops: :oops:

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mclaren111
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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organic wrote:
26 Aug 2023, 21:36
Mogster wrote:
26 Aug 2023, 21:27
Just_a_fan wrote:
26 Aug 2023, 21:00


Hamilton admitted he wasn't fast enough, tried two quick laps and overcooked the inters. Not blaming others, not throwing tantrums, just honest reflection.
He was fast enough for Q3 though. From onboard he spent most of Q2 being impeded to a greater or lesser degree. We don’t know what he could have done on a dry track in Q3.
The impeding on ham's best push lap didn't cost any time. No lift etc

They penalized tsunoda regardless of how much time it cost ham

Spot On... FIA being idiots again because it's LH...

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mclaren111
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
26 Aug 2023, 22:59
Sieper wrote:
26 Aug 2023, 18:13
That some people don’t want to read it doesn’t make it not true. Russell in P3. Helmut also was expecting Hamilton there.
Wolff blames Tsunoda for the blocking.

That explains the penalty...

Seerix
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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mclaren111 wrote:
27 Aug 2023, 09:56
PlatinumZealot wrote:
26 Aug 2023, 22:59
Sieper wrote:
26 Aug 2023, 18:13
That some people don’t want to read it doesn’t make it not true. Russell in P3. Helmut also was expecting Hamilton there.
Wolff blames Tsunoda for the blocking.

That explains the penalty...
Can you expand on it? I don't understand how Wolff has anything with the penalty.

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Chuckjr
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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If it’s changing weather conditions in the race it won’t matter as much where a driver starts. It will matter more where a driver is on the track when a safety car comes out, having the right tires on at the right time, pit crew, driving prowess in sketchy conditions. Anything can happen, and with as many drivers who went off this weekend, it’s all up in the air afaic. We’ve seen drivers go first to last and vice versa in changing weather conditions, so anything can happen.
Watching F1 since 1986.

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mclaren111
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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Seerix wrote:
27 Aug 2023, 10:01
mclaren111 wrote:
27 Aug 2023, 09:56
PlatinumZealot wrote:
26 Aug 2023, 22:59


Wolff blames Tsunoda for the blocking.

That explains the penalty...
Can you expand on it? I don't understand how Wolff has anything with the penalty.

Wolff's influence over the FIA is ridiculous...

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Unc1eM0nty
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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Chuckjr wrote:
27 Aug 2023, 10:09
If it’s changing weather conditions in the race it won’t matter as much where a driver starts. It will matter more where a driver is on the track when a safety car comes out, having the right tires on at the right time, pit crew, driving prowess in sketchy conditions. Anything can happen, and with as many drivers who went off this weekend, it’s all up in the air afaic. We’ve seen drivers go first to last and vice versa in changing weather conditions, so anything can happen.
Agreed, this race will be a lottery, they all just need to keep it on track and see how it pans out, but we all know that won't happen ;0)

I used to love wet races, mixed up grids and a change to the usual order, but no so much now. We've had so many recently and they tend to disapoint, just an endless loop of safety cars, way too long saflty cars, we just miss a lot of racing action.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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Well the F2 race was interesting with changing conditions and safety cars.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.