2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[RZS10]

[snip ... several screenshots from the F1 timing app]

More than two years ago we (as in people on the forum here) already came to the conclusion that the data from the app isn't precise enough to use for any proper analysis, the refresh rate is too low and inconsistent, especially under braking - a quick look at the huge chunks in which it shows the speed decrease tells us that it's quite literally not worth looking at, especially if it does not correspond to what our own eyes can see.

That is easy to confirm with any onboard video where someone overlaid the data from the timing app.

For example here where the speed [kph] shown is:

324 - 289 - 229 - 202 - 162 - 156 - 151 - 146* - 143 - 142 - 151
*already back on throttle, speed still decreases

That's irregular jumps/chunks of [kph] in deceleration/acceleration:
35 - 60 - 27 - 40 - 6 - 5 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 9

which get refreshed after
0.3s
0.3s
0.167s
0.5s
0.167s
0.167s
0.33s
0.167s
0.33s

So as i wrote: delayed, irregular, too imprecise - utterly worthless.

[AR3-GP]

It would make more sense to use f1-tempo but they usually delete lap 1...

[chrisc90]

It would make more sense to use f1-tempo but they usually delete lap 1...

Click invalid laps.

[ringo]

Hamilton was past Norris. And had full control of his car on the track, even following the flank of russel's car with steering inputs.

<personal stuff removed>
Everyone including Hamilton Tot and the team was happy about how the first corner was handled.

He was alongside Norris, when he would have needed to brake. The only reason he came alongside Russel was that he missed the braking point and gained nearly three car length on Russel.
<personal stuff removed>

Well you can show me where there is a "braking point" on the tarmac.
There is none. A driver can brake where ever he wants so long as his car is under control and stays within the two white lines.
The car did not lock up and again i repeat, was under full control. No understeer, no oversteer, no full lock.
Kimi Raikonen famously evaded cars on the first lap at spa many times using an outside line and he won that race like 7 times.
There seems to be some confusion with real life and video games. Where does this braking point concept come from? It's nowhere in sporting regulation or marked anywhere on the track. The drivers dont brake at a discrete point before a corner for the move to be legal or fair. You brake as late as you want at any point so long as your car is in control.
Hamilton passed Norris cleanly who was tucked uo behind russel. It's very obvious from the videos and slo motion replay.
I think you are creating concepts to try and make a very obvious passing murky.
I have never seen anything like this in F1 where someone gets passed completely and yet wants back a position.
If Russel did not block lewis, lewis would be through past Norris just like any car being passed because its tucked up behind another car. Basic lap start.
I wont comment on the ham fans nonsense because it's really nothing to do with fandom. It's just plain to see.

The speeds on that app is nonse and obviously lags. Hamilton cannot be 50kph faster than russel. Thats ridiculous.
There was a lovely post with hamilton onboard. He has full grip on the front axle and even adjusts his distance from russel to avoid clashing with the floor and rear wheel right after he passed norris. This is not a 50kph differential. Also proof the guy is in full control of his car and isnt even thinking about Norris. He is focusing on staying close to russel but not clash wheels.
The shot with the overhead view is also good. Hamilton well within the center of the track and comfortably capable of staying within the apex of the upcoming corner.
It's good to use common sense and your own eye balls to see that there was no 50kph difference between Lewis and Russel.
That 50kph would have been when he was driving towards the bollard off track.

[TFSA]

guys lets all take this with a bit of logic... at no point was ham complaining that russell was too slow or to let him take a stab at victory... there were only a few laps left. they both needed to get past 2 cars. could it simply be a case of needing to thread the needle since there is simply no time to pass 1 car at a time? had ham stayed back and let rus pass first he would run out of laps to pass himself. its kinda like the movie Driven where stallone's character was following closely with the protagonist so they could both pass cars together.

honestly this whole thing is taken WAY out of context and completely overblown.

That's definitely not correct. HAM on radio at the end of the race said: "George needs to pick up the pace."

That was even broadcast on the live stream.

[Just_a_fan]

guys lets all take this with a bit of logic... at no point was ham complaining that russell was too slow or to let him take a stab at victory... there were only a few laps left. they both needed to get past 2 cars. could it simply be a case of needing to thread the needle since there is simply no time to pass 1 car at a time? had ham stayed back and let rus pass first he would run out of laps to pass himself. its kinda like the movie Driven where stallone's character was following closely with the protagonist so they could both pass cars together.

honestly this whole thing is taken WAY out of context and completely overblown.

That's definitely not correct. HAM on radio at the end of the race said: "George needs to pick up the pace."

That was even broadcast on the live stream.

The radio broadcasts are notoriously not in sync with the live action. The "pick up pace" comment was shown well after it was actually sent I.e. during the initial chase down, not when they were on the back of Norris.

Hamilton has a history of these chase downs so he was well placed to know they needed to get on with it early.

[chrisc90]

Should the car being overtaken (ie Russell here) be made to veer off the racing line? Russell took the same line as sainz, and Norris took the same line as rus and sainz.

It’s a bit similar to the monza 2021 with Lewis and Max. Overtaking car coming alongside gets half the move done by being alongside, but the car being overtaken stays on the racing line.

Spa 2022 with ham and Alonso is partially similar.

When it’s a sequence of corners, I think a bit more is given to the car being overtaken and more risk put on the overtaking car to get the move fully complete before the next corner

[Spoutnik]

[Astro85]

Well that's stating the obvious, but, you get the feeling that they would have done it had roles been reversed, but, then again, Hamilton did state he would have stayed out anyway.

[AMG.Tzan]

Yet the same guy got Mercedes into splitting its strategy and basically losing any hope of winning at Zandovoort 2022 just to get ahead of Hamilton! Had he stayed where he was probably Hamilton would have had a "rear gunner" to help him defend from Verstapen! But probably Russell's mind was only at beating Hamilton...

I don't really care what Russell thinks! He had half the race to himself to try and pass Sainz and yet he didn't! Had Lewis come from so far back with new mediums and managed to overtake all of them it would have been Russell's fault for not achieving the same thing earlier in the race...

[j_ste]

Thats what the money is for!

Come on, James.

[Oleo]

guys lets all take this with a bit of logic... at no point was ham complaining that russell was too slow or to let him take a stab at victory... there were only a few laps left. they both needed to get past 2 cars. could it simply be a case of needing to thread the needle since there is simply no time to pass 1 car at a time? had ham stayed back and let rus pass first he would run out of laps to pass himself. its kinda like the movie Driven where stallone's character was following closely with the protagonist so they could both pass cars together.

honestly this whole thing is taken WAY out of context and completely overblown.

That's definitely not correct. HAM on radio at the end of the race said: "George needs to pick up the pace."

That was even broadcast on the live stream.

The radio broadcasts are notoriously not in sync with the live action. The "pick up pace" comment was shown well after it was actually sent I.e. during the initial chase down, not when they were on the back of Norris.

Hamilton has a history of these chase downs so he was well placed to know they needed to get on with it early.

FACTCHECK MODE ENGAGED

Message sent at f1tv 1h52m53 sec.
5 sec delay -> 1h52m48 sec, middle of lap 61.
Message broadcast at f1tv 1h53m14 sec.
Actual delay between message and broadcast: 26 secs.

FACTCHECK MODE DISENGAGED

[ringo]

And what's the problem with asking to pick up the pace?
Ferrari's leclerc and Sainz do it almost every race at each others expense.

[Just_a_fan]

And what's the problem with asking to pick up the pace?
Ferrari's leclerc and Sainz do it almost every race at each others expense.

It's all Hamilton's fault, or something.

Anyway, he said "George needs to pick up the pace if he can". And those three little words don't get quoted by those choosing to use the episode as evidence of some malpractice by Hamilton. As if Hamilton saying something to his engineer suddenly affects Russell in the other car.

It's just another attempt to "have a go" at Hamilton. It's what this thread appears to exist for, judging by so many of the posts in here.

[Oleo]

Absolutely nothing wrong with the comment, in fact I think its out of place lap 61. He probably could have commented earlier.

Making random stuff up as argumentation is another story.