2023 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 03 - 05

[DDopey]

I think a few are getting confused here.

Russell was blocking Perez, so that’s why he wasn’t getting a penalty.
I can only assume that it was the case for ocon and gasly too.

I'm not confused because my opinion differs from yours.

Speed up under white flags and go on the grass next to a wall is on Max.

We don't not slow under yellows because the driver who went off broke a rule.

They are not there for interpretation, but safety, and that was not safe. It was forewarned by the stewards with an instruction to be cautious. He did the opposite.

It was mandated that the drivers should stay on the left side so they could be overtaken. Those were the rules for this weekend.

[DDopey]

This shows Max's view. Tons of white flags (Slower moving vehicle ahead) and he is speeding up.

Ah there we go then!

This isn’t avoiding action! He just wants track position. Passes them and then slows down in front of them!

New rules state he is allowed to overtake. Slow drivers should stay to the left.

This is ridiculous by the FIA! Implementing their owns rules wherever they like! This was quite dangerous from Verstapen and also the Alfa Romeo should have gotten a penalty if we take into account the new pit exit rule…

All these ridiculous rules for nothing! Same goes for track limits! Just complexities that solve nothing! This qualifying system has been in use for over 15 years now and we never had a problem! Why now?

Than you havent been paying attention. There were many many dangerous situations over the past couple of years on track due the slow downs in the last sector.

[search]

This shows Max's view. Tons of white flags (Slower moving vehicle ahead) and he is speeding up.

Ah there we go then!

This isn’t avoiding action! He just wants track position. Passes them and then slows down in front of them!

sure, but I can't really see how it isn't in accordance with the new rules, valid on from this weekend:

"As per article 33.4 of the Formula 1 Sporting Regulations, drivers are not allowed to go unnecessarily slow, that includes stopping a car in the fast lane of the pit lane. During Shootout and Qualifying, drivers may create a gap between the pit exit lights and the SC2 line. Any driver who wishes to do so must drive as far to the left as possible to allow other drivers to pass them on the right side of the pit exit road.

So I guess F1 didn't mean them to do it on the grass, but it clearly is allowed to pass slow drivers on that stretch. If there's anyone to penalize, it's those going slow in the middle of the road, instead of the very left.

[Cs98]

Max was actually the offended party in that situation. The new regulations make it so that you should be able to pass on the exit because slow moving cars need to stay left. These guys were staying in the center which meant he had to put a wheel on the grass. The slow moving cars should've been investigated for it, and the people complaining should read the new rules.

[chrisc90]

Also to mention that a white flag is simply to advise a driver there is a car ahead not travelling at racing speed. There is no need to be prepared to slow down or stop like you would under a single/double waved YELLOW. If drivers had to slow down under a white, just about every quali lap would be void given they were speedin up/doing racing speed past a white flag.


The video above from Perez onboard, shows russel over 1/2 way across the pit lane, therefore impeding Perez.

Gasly looked to impede the Alpha tauri

Ocon was crawling very slowly when he was overtaken by a red bull.


I think the thing to take away from this is.....all the cars that got penalties...were overtaken in the pit exit and other cars had to go onto the grass. It looks if you were following the car ahead, and not wanting to get ahead, you were ok to do so.

[Sieper]

They understand but they still like to put something on Max where he is in fact the party that suffers from the others. This is the part of the pit exit where you should start to speed up so that you don’t arrive on the live track with a very low speed. Max was the only one doing what he was supposed to do there.

The speed difference is not nice to see though. For next year they will need to sharpen the rule here. They all should be speeding up here.

[mwillems]

I think a few are getting confused here.

Russell was blocking Perez, so that’s why he wasn’t getting a penalty.
I can only assume that it was the case for ocon and gasly too.

I'm not confused because my opinion differs from yours.

Speed up under white flags and go on the grass next to a wall is on Max.

We don't not slow under yellows because the driver who went off broke a rule.

They are not there for interpretation, but safety, and that was not safe. It was forewarned by the stewards with an instruction to be cautious. He did the opposite.

Max wasn’t penalised because he didn’t impede anyone.

My post wasn’t even about max to be fair.

But it came directly after several posts about Max, so that's somewhat misleading.

We know Max didn't get penalised and why they said so, but he did cause a danger to himself and others by ignoring flags, which is punishable I think?

[search]

The speed difference is not nice to see though. For next year they will need to sharpen the rule here. They all should be speeding up here.

yeah, it's not a great look for sure, and potentially dangerous. Another way would be to widen parts of the pit lanes, creating one slow and one fast lane, but I guess that comes with too much work, and also isn't really possible on every track.

[chrisc90]

I agree Sieper. Its a narrow piece of pit exit in Brazil and would actually require cars to stay very close to the left line to allow another car to pass. I actually think the current revised rule doesnt work at a track like this due to its narrow exit. I mean what happens in Monaco when you have the same rule? Itll be impossible to implement that rule if the car behind wants to be past.

For narrower pitlanes, id say a minimum speed of the pitlane should be implemented. That way faster cars arent going to come round the corner and have unsighted stationary/very slow traffic ahead of them. Only other option would be a section of straight track where drivers can move off the track/racing line and allow them to make a gap. You could probably have a cars width 'lane' along the straight at Brazil (out of the pitlane) where you could drive at the far left in order to create your space on track. That lane would stop come the 300m marker board for turn 4. Something like that would be very circuit dependant.

[mwillems]

They understand but they still like to put something on Max where he is in fact the party that suffers from the others. This is the part of the pit exit where you should start to speed up so that you don’t arrive on the live track with a very low speed. Max was the only one doing what he was supposed to do there.

The speed difference is not nice to see though. For next year they will need to sharpen the rule here. They all should be speeding up here.

I understand that there was a queue ahead and those in front deserved penalties. However I also understand that going that speed in the pit lane exit with white flags is dangerous, because with slow moving cars in that lane almost certaily avoiding action has little room.

On track yeah it is different, there's room to move safely, but not there, and I doubt he didn't know that.

[101FlyingDutchman]

This shows Max's view. Tons of white flags (Slower moving vehicle ahead) and he is speeding up.

Ah there we go then!

This isn’t avoiding action! He just wants track position. Passes them and then slows down in front of them!

sure, but I can't really see how it isn't in accordance with the new rules, valid on from this weekend:

"As per article 33.4 of the Formula 1 Sporting Regulations, drivers are not allowed to go unnecessarily slow, that includes stopping a car in the fast lane of the pit lane. During Shootout and Qualifying, drivers may create a gap between the pit exit lights and the SC2 line. Any driver who wishes to do so must drive as far to the left as possible to allow other drivers to pass them on the right side of the pit exit road.

So I guess F1 didn't mean them to do it on the grass, but it clearly is allowed to pass slow drivers on that stretch. If there's anyone to penalize, it's those going slow in the middle of the road, instead of the very left.

And now watch it go quiet in here as they realise that actually the rules have changed. I still don’t like the closing speed in a narrow pit exit area. Every rule has unintended consequences and seemingly a combo of how far a car is to the left and the speed of the car leaving the pit lane behind, makes for a not brilliant scenario

[mwillems]

Ah there we go then!

This isn’t avoiding action! He just wants track position. Passes them and then slows down in front of them!

sure, but I can't really see how it isn't in accordance with the new rules, valid on from this weekend:

"As per article 33.4 of the Formula 1 Sporting Regulations, drivers are not allowed to go unnecessarily slow, that includes stopping a car in the fast lane of the pit lane. During Shootout and Qualifying, drivers may create a gap between the pit exit lights and the SC2 line. Any driver who wishes to do so must drive as far to the left as possible to allow other drivers to pass them on the right side of the pit exit road.

So I guess F1 didn't mean them to do it on the grass, but it clearly is allowed to pass slow drivers on that stretch. If there's anyone to penalize, it's those going slow in the middle of the road, instead of the very left.

And now watch it go quiet in here as they realise that actually the rules have changed. I still don’t like the closing speed in a narrow pit exit area. Every rule has unintended consequences and seemingly a combo of how far a car is to the left and the speed of the car leaving the pit lane behind, makes for a not brilliant scenario

And the only way to overtake is at speed on a tight lane with white flags? No, I don't agree. He could of approached at a reasonable speed and passed people, his speed was stupid. Even with drivers to on the left white line there isn't enough room and driving at that speed on grass is daft.

[chrisc90]

I'm not confused because my opinion differs from yours.

Speed up under white flags and go on the grass next to a wall is on Max.

We don't not slow under yellows because the driver who went off broke a rule.

They are not there for interpretation, but safety, and that was not safe. It was forewarned by the stewards with an instruction to be cautious. He did the opposite.

Max wasn’t penalised because he didn’t impede anyone.

My post wasn’t even about max to be fair.

But it came directly after several posts about Max, so that's somewhat misleading.

We know Max didn't get penalised and why they said so, but he did cause a danger to himself and others by ignoring flags, which is punishable I think?

Which flag did he ignore that means there is a danger that you need to be prepared to stop for?

The pit exit is part of the race track, so its perfectly acceptable to go as fast as you like along that section of track. Hence the rule for you must not drive un-necessarily slowly or impede.

Max, or any other driver, is entitled to drive how he wants when they cross the pit exit line. There was a alpine and a Alpha Tauri that also overtook on the grass too (hence the reason the impeding cars got penalties)..... Are they considered to be driving dangerous too and should get a penalty?

[Sieper]

He was right to expect the cars would keep left, as was agreed in the stewards notes. For this track specifically. In fact, maybe Checo should have been penalized for failing to do that even if he was stuck behind others going slow.

[falonso81]

I think everyone understands that Max was not impeding anyone. It was just dangerous to speed up, knowing you would come accross several cars in crawling speed. If he wanted track position, why didnt the team released him earlier? Absolutely no point in pulling moves like that in the pitlane. A crash will occur in the next races if FIA do not properly address this "rule".