Ferrari SF-24 speculation

[KimiRai]

- The problem at the front is one that Ferrari has carried with it for too many years. Something that doesn't necessarily suit Leclerc's driving style. The floorboard at Suzuka is a good first step, which will also improve the driver's confidence. There is a clear desire on the part of the engineers to strengthen the front end.

Thanks for sharing, this bit is worth commenting on. The front end of SF-23 was weaker than expected due to inadequate design, but that's not all. During the season, to offset the rear aero instability, the team decided to further weaken the front and have more rear balance than they wanted, as was reported. This left the rear more stable and less prone to snaps of oversteer, but Leclerc struggled to extract the most from the car. Japan upgrade made the rear more stable and Leclerc was able to get the better balance. Should be said, the "carried (weak front end) with it for too many years" is quite bad writing, since the F1-75 was exceptionally well balanced even after the TD39 and both drivers were able to adapt to it very well. So of all the points they posted, this was definitely completely incorrect.

"Le problème à l'avant est un problème que Ferrari porte avec elle depuis trop d'années."
At first I thought it could have been a poor translation but it seems similar to what the translator conveyed

[deadhead]

I would like to know which of all the things we say here come from an official or very reliable source and which instead come from fantasy.
This is a thread of speculation, we write about one of our greatest passions and it is right to talk about hopes rather than truth... But I would really like to know.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBwcl9oXMAA ... =4096x4096

Really nice red color there

[gordonthegun]

I would like to know which of all the things we say here come from an official or very reliable source and which instead come from fantasy.
This is a thread of speculation, we write about one of our greatest passions and it is right to talk about hopes rather than truth... But I would really like to know.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBwcl9oXMAA ... =4096x4096

Really nice red color there

That is undoubtedly TRUTH

[Vanja #66]

This is 2024 Ferrari F1 car speculation thread, not Every Ferrari F1 car endless discussion thread. Please stick to the topic.

[organic]

Will the outboard face of the sidepods be scalloped or convex? Is there a clear advantage to one option over the other? Or a small and not hugely important detail

[Vanja #66]

Will the outboard face of the sidepods be scalloped or convex? Is there a clear advantage to one option over the other? Or a small and not hugely important detail

I think this is kind of the big question we are all asking about the new Ferrari specifically. It feels like other parts of bodywork we will get to see (so everything except underfloor) are well defined for a while, based on their statements and media speculation.

It's not yet clear if they chose to go hybrid in/downwash or pure downwash, and how the side wall will look as a result. They tested different designs and it will surely depend also on their rear suspension choice, as well as cannon outlet design choice. I think they will also chose a direction they see as the one having the biggest development potential, even if at first it might not be the one that gets them another half a tenth. Having said that, I think pure downwash now has more potential than hybrid design, it may be as simple as having more volume and surface to play with...

[r85]

Will the outboard face of the sidepods be scalloped or convex? Is there a clear advantage to one option over the other? Or a small and not hugely important detail

I think this is kind of the big question we are all asking about the new Ferrari specifically. It feels like other parts of bodywork we will get to see (so everything except underfloor) are well defined for a while, based on their statements and media speculation.

It's not yet clear if they chose to go hybrid in/downwash or pure downwash, and how the side wall will look as a result. They tested different designs and it will surely depend also on their rear suspension choice, as well as cannon outlet design choice. I think they will also chose a direction they see as the one having the biggest development potential, even if at first it might not be the one that gets them another half a tenth. Having said that, I think pure downwash now has more potential than hybrid design, it may be as simple as having more volume and surface to play with...

Isn't the in-wash philosophy one of the reasons for the high tire deg? I do remember reading about Ferrari's aero causing higher tire degradation.

[K1Plus]

Will the outboard face of the sidepods be scalloped or convex? Is there a clear advantage to one option over the other? Or a small and not hugely important detail

I think this is kind of the big question we are all asking about the new Ferrari specifically. It feels like other parts of bodywork we will get to see (so everything except underfloor) are well defined for a while, based on their statements and media speculation.

It's not yet clear if they chose to go hybrid in/downwash or pure downwash, and how the side wall will look as a result. They tested different designs and it will surely depend also on their rear suspension choice, as well as cannon outlet design choice. I think they will also chose a direction they see as the one having the biggest development potential, even if at first it might not be the one that gets them another half a tenth. Having said that, I think pure downwash now has more potential than hybrid design, it may be as simple as having more volume and surface to play with...

Isn't the in-wash philosophy one of the reasons for the high tire deg? I do remember reading about Ferrari's aero causing higher tire degradation.

AFAIK inwash has inherently more downforce, but much less development potential and it's reached a development ceiling and you can't find time with that concept.
Haas said a while ago that they tried adding performance with the concept in the wind tunnel but they couldn't find any time.
Ferrari were quick out of the gate in 2022, but it seems their car was disjointed as Scarbstech pointed out once.
For the SF24, I think we can expect a car that will have maybe a little less pure downforce, but I hope a wide working window.

[Vanja #66]

Isn't the in-wash philosophy one of the reasons for the high tire deg? I do remember reading about Ferrari's aero causing higher tire degradation.

Let's use this chance and get a few things in line, this notion has been bouncing way too long...

1) thermal tyre deg happens when they get too hot and you get a massive drop off in performance for using them "too quickly" and with Pirellis this happens sooner than mechanical thread wear (unlike Bridgestones)

2) you use them too quickly if you are running too close to Qualy laps, meaning you are running closer to the full potential of the car during the race

3) if you have more (usable) downforce you are able to run quicker than others and use your tyres as much as them, as we've seen from RB in Baku 2023 they were able to open up a big gap in the second stint after the safety car, but they had to drop the pace so they could finish on the same tyres

4) Ferrari was actually able to get longer stints on the Mediums in recent races than RB, with basically the same pace, but they dropped off on Hards

5) 22 Ferrari was the best chassis until Spa and TD39 forced by Mercedes, but Binotto's strategy team managed more than once to screw up their lead and this set a notion that RB18 was the better car the entire season

So hybrid or pure inwash sidepods have little to do with tyre wear. The connection between the two on launch-spec SF-23 was the fact it had an unstable rear floor downforce, due to being more susceptible to ingesting dirty air into diffuser and losing downforce as a result and it was also the case for side winds. Even with SF-23 Evo from Barcelona on there was still some inherent instability in the rear, all the way until Japan floor upgrade.

Rear floor instability wasn't the case in 2022, so for the 23 car they made a few mistakes very early, by setting that design direction and performance targets. Binotto's decision to quit F1-75 development early left them without an option to find out if floor edge changes for 2023 will have an impact on their inwash concept.

[FDD]

Zander Arcari:
"According to the information gathered by our editorial team, in fact, the Italian team worked quite a bit on the front end of the single-seater, a weak point of the SF-23 which enormously restricted the car's operating window. A lack of "ride" that the Prancing Horse has corrected, in an attempt to increase the technical ductility of the 676 project."

Not only the front wing, but more important the whole front part of chassis with a narrower section in its lower part, thinking on the "V" shape of the lower part of the car's nose introduced on RB19 by AN and previously also on McLaren MP4-13.

[nico5]

Isn't the in-wash philosophy one of the reasons for the high tire deg? I do remember reading about Ferrari's aero causing higher tire degradation.

Let's use this chance and get a few things in line, this notion has been bouncing way too long...

1) thermal tyre deg happens when they get too hot and you get a massive drop off in performance for using them "too quickly" and with Pirellis this happens sooner than mechanical thread wear (unlike Bridgestones)

2) you use them too quickly if you are running too close to Qualy laps, meaning you are running closer to the full potential of the car during the race

3) if you have more (usable) downforce you are able to run quicker than others and use your tyres as much as them, as we've seen from RB in Baku 2023 they were able to open up a big gap in the second stint after the safety car, but they had to drop the pace so they could finish on the same tyres

4) Ferrari was actually able to get longer stints on the Mediums in recent races than RB, with basically the same pace, but they dropped off on Hards

5) 22 Ferrari was the best chassis until Spa and TD39 forced by Mercedes, but Binotto's strategy team managed more than once to screw up their lead and this set a notion that RB18 was the better car the entire season

So hybrid or pure inwash sidepods have little to do with tyre wear. The connection between the two on launch-spec SF-23 was the fact it had an unstable rear floor downforce, due to being more susceptible to ingesting dirty air into diffuser and losing downforce as a result and it was also the case for side winds. Even with SF-23 Evo from Barcelona on there was still some inherent instability in the rear, all the way until Japan floor upgrade.

Rear floor instability wasn't the case in 2022, so for the 23 car they made a few mistakes very early, by setting that design direction and performance targets. Binotto's decision to quit F1-75 development early left them without an option to find out if floor edge changes for 2023 will have an impact on their inwash concept.

Amen

[gordonthegun]

So, speculating on the 2024 Ferrari singleseater or project 676, I see:

1) Suspensions:
Push rod at front and pull at rear (like last year) but with a different geometry of the arms.
In particular: front with a higher value of positive caster (anti-dive) and rear with a higher value of negative caster (anti-squat).

Casters:



2) Sidepods:
Sliding down sidepods with additional moderate waterslide and wider undercut allowed by the lower SIS placed into the floor.
Pure outwash geometry at the end and side S-duct kept.

More or less this way:



3) Upper part:
Thin engine cover with moderate cannon exit and triangle airbox.

More or less this way:



4) Front end:
Thinner nosecone and front wing with flaps profile that slopes more smoothly from nose to endplate to which they join with outwash shapes.

More or less this way:



5) Underfloor:
Unknown.

More or less this way:



6) Floor edge:
A very small evolution of the SF-23 last iteration (no need of picture).


Description subject to change without prior notice or warning.

P.S.: I hope Ferrari may come up with something unexpected that can excite us even a little more.

[scuderiabrandon]

So, speculating on the 2024 Ferrari singleseater or project 676, I see:

1) Suspensions:
Push rod at front and pull at rear (like last year) but with a different geometry of the arms.
In particular: front with a higher value of positive caster (anti-dive) and rear with a higher value of negative caster (anti-squat).

Casters:

https://www.automobilismo.it/files/arti ... g-0003.jpg

2) Sidepods:
Sliding down sidepods with additional moderate waterslide and wider undercut allowed by the lower SIS placed into the floor.
Pure outwash geometry at the end and side S-duct kept.

More or less this way:

https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/amp ... pods-1.jpg

3) Upper part:
Thin engine cover with moderate cannon exit and triangle airbox.

More or less this way:

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... el-1-2.jpg

4) Front end:
Thinner nosecone and front wing with flaps profile that slopes more smoothly from nose to endplate to which they join with outwash shapes.

More or less this way:

https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/D4D12 ... GqzSAOlqmc

5) Underfloor:
Unknown.

More or less this way:

https://e7.pngegg.com/pngimages/976/984 ... mbnail.png

6) Floor edge:
A very small evolution of the SF-23 last iteration (no need of picture).


Description subject to change without prior notice or warning.

P.S.: I hope Ferrari may come up with something unexpected that can excite us even a little more.

if you change the sidepod you'll need to change the floor edge. The edge device philosphy will remain the same (common trend across the grid at this point) but if the undercut and fences change, the edge will need chaging aswell. With the SIS moving the upper deck of the floor will change, further incentivizing edge changes.

Very few if any aero devices work in isolation on these cars, so changing one thing requires change somewhere else.

[gordonthegun]

So, speculating on the 2024 Ferrari singleseater or project 676, I see:

1) Suspensions:
Push rod at front and pull at rear (like last year) but with a different geometry of the arms.
In particular: front with a higher value of positive caster (anti-dive) and rear with a higher value of negative caster (anti-squat).

Casters:

https://www.automobilismo.it/files/arti ... g-0003.jpg

2) Sidepods:
Sliding down sidepods with additional moderate waterslide and wider undercut allowed by the lower SIS placed into the floor.
Pure outwash geometry at the end and side S-duct kept.

More or less this way:

https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/amp ... pods-1.jpg

3) Upper part:
Thin engine cover with moderate cannon exit and triangle airbox.

More or less this way:

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... el-1-2.jpg

4) Front end:
Thinner nosecone and front wing with flaps profile that slopes more smoothly from nose to endplate to which they join with outwash shapes.

More or less this way:

https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/D4D12 ... GqzSAOlqmc

5) Underfloor:
Unknown.

More or less this way:

https://e7.pngegg.com/pngimages/976/984 ... mbnail.png

6) Floor edge:
A very small evolution of the SF-23 last iteration (no need of picture).


Description subject to change without prior notice or warning.

P.S.: I hope Ferrari may come up with something unexpected that can excite us even a little more.

if you change the sidepod you'll need to change the floor edge. The edge device philosphy will remain the same (common trend across the grid at this point) but if the undercut and fences change, the edge will need chaging aswell. With the SIS moving the upper deck of the floor will change, further incentivizing edge changes.

Very few if any aero devices work in isolation on these cars, so changing one thing requires change somewhere else.

Yes, sure, you are right, I was trying to list the very visible changes compared to the SF-23.
The floor edge can change a lot with a few millimeters in the right place, but I think that visually there won't be a very noticeable difference.

And don't forget it was just my imagination (cit.)

[organic]

PG/Formu1a suggest that the sidepods will be a less extreme solution. Something closer to the sf-23 and rb19 rather than the waterslides of McLaren/Aston Martin

There will be a significant undercut and the outermost floor fence will be significantly revised