Ferrari SF-24 speculation

[gordonthegun]

So, speculating on the 2024 Ferrari singleseater or project 676, I see:

1) Suspensions:
Push rod at front and pull at rear (like last year) but with a different geometry of the arms.
In particular: front with a higher value of positive caster (anti-dive) and rear with a higher value of negative caster (anti-squat).

Casters:

https://www.automobilismo.it/files/arti ... g-0003.jpg

Sorry, I struggle to understand how caster can influence antidive in a f1 suspension

You are right, caster—especially on an F1 with double wishbone suspension, and as different to a strut-type suspension, as shown—doesn’t influence anti-dive coefficient though anti-dive geometry does affect caster angle throughout the suspension travel.

Anti-dive, like anti-lift at the back—anti-squat is different as drive force is at wheel center height—is the way braking forces at the tire contact are reacted by the suspension geometry and how these loads are fed into the sprung mass (chassis) and the unsprung elements (springs), resulting in an upward force to the chassis and an unloading on the front springs, partially compensating the spring compression due to forward weight transfer under braking:

https://i.imgur.com/gmxD4Tu.jpg

In effect, the lateral kinematics of a suspension with anti-dive geometry can be likened to a leading-arm suspension with the tire contact patch translating forward with upward deflection—and hence creating one of its drawbacks, poor compliance to bumps.

Finally, with all the talk of an anti-dive, ostensibly because of RB angled wishbones, you can see that RB--with the lower wishbone pivot axis also inclined--has a relatively low lateral instant center, and so a relatively low anti-dive coefficient… probably less than SF-23, ironically. So all this talk about SF-24 having more anti-dive just means wishbones pivot axes will be more inclined for aero reasons.

It's clear you're an engineer and I'm just an enthusiast.

[ing.]

It's clear you're an engineer and I'm just an enthusiast.

We’re all enthusiasts … and probably better informed than some ‘journalists’

[AR3-GP]

To me it seems like RB used the wishbones as an aerodynamic fairing. There is high alignment of the wishbones with the floor leading edge. In combination with the v-hull of the chassis, I feel this is the hidden in plain sight effect as opposed to the more commonly referenced anti-dive.

[scuderiabrandon]

To me it seems like RB used the wishbones as an aerodynamic fairing. There is high alignment of the wishbones with the floor leading edge. In combination with the v-hull of the chassis, I feel this is the hidden in plain sight effect as opposed to the more commonly referenced anti-dive.

Not sure whether Sauber ran a higher anti-dive percentage but you can see the susp. arms aligned with the sp undercut area fairly well. Then they add the chassis bulge that acts almost as an additional down turning vane. From this I'd say it is fair to assume higher degrees of ani-dive is aerodynamically motivated. IIRC this generation of cars only have around 30mm of front susp travel, the effects of higher degrees of anti-dive is much less oppose to touring cars for example.

I definitely see Ferrari going down a similar route (just to add some relevancy to my post)

[f1316]

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10566335/

First time I’m reading that last year’s car was 6kg over the min weight limit - which I believe would make it heavier than the 2022 car? - but according to this they will at least be under the limit in 2024.

[scuderiabrandon]

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10566335/

First time I’m reading that last year’s car was 6kg over the min weight limit - which I believe would make it heavier than the 2022 car? - but according to this they will at least be under the limit in 2024.

The car could've gotten heavier with some of the upgrades brought during the season, especially the lager packages like that of Barcelona. They may have not been so concerned over the weight as they were trying to solve mcuh bigger issues at the time.

Also ICE reliability took a step forward, and usually doing so requires you to make things thicker and heavier.

I don't think it so unbelievable that they might have gotten heavier.

[Andi76]

PG/Formu1a suggest that the sidepods will be a less extreme solution. Something closer to the sf-23 and rb19 rather than the waterslides of McLaren/Aston Martin

There will be a significant undercut and the outermost floor fence will be significantly revised

I wonder how this guy can know all these things.

The translated tweet says a lot more. Why should we believe him?

Translation (by Google and me, the Spanish GP is that of 2023):

"Ferrari 2024: the bellies will not have the Mclaren/Aston Martin tubs but will maintain a less extreme solution, already partially seen on the SF-23, and closer to what was seen on the Red Bull RB19. A good part of the bodywork will be an evolution, not a revolution, of the update seen at the 2022 Spanish GP. Thanks to the elimination of important chassis limitations, Ferrari will no longer use the front part of the belly to move the turbulent wake of the front tires but it will open up a significant undercut to bring better flow to the rear end. For this reason, the design of the outermost fence positioned at the entrance of the floor will be completely revised.".

All these journalists who claim to know what kind of front wing, gearbox, sidepods, suspension or whatever the new Ferrari has or how much less weight it has or doesn't have - that's all completely stupid talk, sorry. These people just make stuff up because they don't know anything but have pages to fill. Funnily enough, you only hear such things about the new Ferraris, but not about the new Red Bull, Mercedes or McLaren, Aston Martin etc. In an F1 team there are only a handful of engineers who actually know all the details about the car from front to back and these people don't blab this to journalists. And I can only repeat it - especially at Ferrari there are very strict contracts and an engineer needs permission to speak to the press at all. But either way - these senior engineers, just like the other teams, don't willingly tell everything about the car that will be presented in four weeks and is top secret. So sorry if I have to say it again - but these journalists who pretend to know all sorts of things are all vapor talkers who write made-up things. Because they don't know anything, just like nobody knows what the new Red Bull looks like. It's just the typical annual storytelling of Italian journalists who exploit the emotions of the millions of Ferrari fans in order to "make a splash".

[organic]

PG/Formu1a suggest that the sidepods will be a less extreme solution. Something closer to the sf-23 and rb19 rather than the waterslides of McLaren/Aston Martin

There will be a significant undercut and the outermost floor fence will be significantly revised

https://twitter.com/SmilexTech/status/1 ... hRVIQ&s=19

I wonder how this guy can know all these things.

The translated tweet says a lot more. Why should we believe him?

Translation (by Google and me, the Spanish GP is that of 2023):

(Snipped quote)

All these journalists who claim to know what kind of front wing, gearbox, sidepods, suspension or whatever the new Ferrari has or how much less weight it has or doesn't have - that's all completely stupid talk, sorry. These people just make stuff up because they don't know anything but have pages to fill. Funnily enough, you only hear such things about the new Ferraris, but not about the new Red Bull, Mercedes or McLaren, Aston Martin etc. In an F1 team there are only a handful of engineers who actually know all the details about the car from front to back and these people don't blab this to journalists. And I can only repeat it - especially at Ferrari there are very strict contracts and an engineer needs permission to speak to the press at all. But either way - these senior engineers, just like the other teams, don't willingly tell everything about the car that will be presented in four weeks and is top secret. So sorry if I have to say it again - but these journalists who pretend to know all sorts of things are all vapor talkers who write made-up things. Because they don't know anything, just like nobody knows what the new Red Bull looks like. It's just the typical annual storytelling of Italian journalists who exploit the emotions of the millions of Ferrari fans in order to "make a splash".

What do you make of them getting fed info from Ferrari during the season then? How else do they release info about engine penalties, causes of DNFs, reasons behind pace issues in a session etc well before anyone else? There is clearly a special relationship

The same goes for formu1a.uno and AT, the only other Italian team. They reported immediately after Singapore that the rb19 suspension was brought; lo and behold they admit it at abu dhabi. Now they write articles like this about Alpha Tauri in the off-season : "the first Racing Bulls car will have, in addition to the pull rod front suspension of the RB19, sidepods that are an evolution of those seen on the AT04 but with characteristics taken from Mclaren and Aston Martin ". I'm happy to revisit this if it proves wrong

AMuS and Alpine seem to have a similar relationship - willing to spill inside info on a select basis but nonetheless info that most publications would in no way have access to.

So I disagree that it's only Ferrari this happens with.

I agree Re: the off-season that it is prime time of year to take advantage of hopeful sentiment of the tifosi (and the same goes for every team), and that they are certainly capitalising on this. However I don't think all of their takes are so unbelievable. With one question you can ask: will the undercut be larger? And a vague answer like "yes, more like rb" can tell you many things: they have less outwashing sidepods, more undercut, anti-intrusion cone must be incorporated into the floor, must adopt a more conventional outer fence to compensate for less wake control from sidepod.. you see how it might happen? But it's not plucked out of thin air in my opinion

One final example: was it not in 2021 that none other than Nunges and Motorsport Italy reported that the F1-75 would have a triangular airbox? Yeah . Nothing ever leaks

[DoctorRadio]

I wonder how this guy can know all these things.

The translated tweet says a lot more. Why should we believe him?

Translation (by Google and me, the Spanish GP is that of 2023):

(Snipped quote)

All these journalists who claim to know what kind of front wing, gearbox, sidepods, suspension or whatever the new Ferrari has or how much less weight it has or doesn't have - that's all completely stupid talk, sorry. These people just make stuff up because they don't know anything but have pages to fill. Funnily enough, you only hear such things about the new Ferraris, but not about the new Red Bull, Mercedes or McLaren, Aston Martin etc. In an F1 team there are only a handful of engineers who actually know all the details about the car from front to back and these people don't blab this to journalists. And I can only repeat it - especially at Ferrari there are very strict contracts and an engineer needs permission to speak to the press at all. But either way - these senior engineers, just like the other teams, don't willingly tell everything about the car that will be presented in four weeks and is top secret. So sorry if I have to say it again - but these journalists who pretend to know all sorts of things are all vapor talkers who write made-up things. Because they don't know anything, just like nobody knows what the new Red Bull looks like. It's just the typical annual storytelling of Italian journalists who exploit the emotions of the millions of Ferrari fans in order to "make a splash".

What do you make of them getting fed info from Ferrari during the season then? How else do they release info about engine penalties, causes of DNFs, reasons behind pace issues in a session etc well before anyone else? There is clearly a special relationship

The same goes for formu1a.uno and AT, the only other Italian team. They reported immediately after Singapore that the rb19 suspension was brought; lo and behold they admit it at abu dhabi. Now they write articles like this about Alpha Tauri in the off-season : "the first Racing Bulls car will have, in addition to the pull rod front suspension of the RB19, sidepods that are an evolution of those seen on the AT04 but with characteristics taken from Mclaren and Aston Martin ". I'm happy to revisit this if it proves wrong

AMuS and Alpine seem to have a similar relationship - willing to spill inside info on a select basis but nonetheless info that most publications would in no way have access to.

So I disagree that it's only Ferrari this happens with.

I agree Re: the off-season that it is prime time of year to take advantage of hopeful sentiment of the tifosi (and the same goes for every team), and that they are certainly capitalising on this. However I don't think all of their takes are so unbelievable. With one question you can ask: will the undercut be larger? And a vague answer like "yes, more like rb" can tell you many things: they have less outwashing sidepods, more undercut, anti-intrusion cone must be incorporated into the floor, must adopt a more conventional outer fence to compensate for less wake control from sidepod.. you see how it might happen? But it's not plucked out of thin air in my opinion

One final example: was it not in 2021 that none other than Nunges and Motorsport Italy reported that the F1-75 would have a triangular airbox? Yeah . Nothing ever leaks

Life is made of social relationships, what is so strange that people can meet each other, talk about something they love, doing so they become friends who mutually respect each other and so these journalists are allowed to spill very limited info in a very discrete way?
Respect is the basis of such “friendships”, write a couple of words about that, but not one more and never cite the source, so I don’t see why it’s so hard to accept there are leaks from the teams.
It’s been like this since forever.

[Andi76]

I wonder how this guy can know all these things.

The translated tweet says a lot more. Why should we believe him?

Translation (by Google and me, the Spanish GP is that of 2023):

(Snipped quote)

All these journalists who claim to know what kind of front wing, gearbox, sidepods, suspension or whatever the new Ferrari has or how much less weight it has or doesn't have - that's all completely stupid talk, sorry. These people just make stuff up because they don't know anything but have pages to fill. Funnily enough, you only hear such things about the new Ferraris, but not about the new Red Bull, Mercedes or McLaren, Aston Martin etc. In an F1 team there are only a handful of engineers who actually know all the details about the car from front to back and these people don't blab this to journalists. And I can only repeat it - especially at Ferrari there are very strict contracts and an engineer needs permission to speak to the press at all. But either way - these senior engineers, just like the other teams, don't willingly tell everything about the car that will be presented in four weeks and is top secret. So sorry if I have to say it again - but these journalists who pretend to know all sorts of things are all vapor talkers who write made-up things. Because they don't know anything, just like nobody knows what the new Red Bull looks like. It's just the typical annual storytelling of Italian journalists who exploit the emotions of the millions of Ferrari fans in order to "make a splash".

What do you make of them getting fed info from Ferrari during the season then? How else do they release info about engine penalties, causes of DNFs, reasons behind pace issues in a session etc well before anyone else? There is clearly a special relationship

The same goes for formu1a.uno and AT, the only other Italian team. They reported immediately after Singapore that the rb19 suspension was brought; lo and behold they admit it at abu dhabi. Now they write articles like this about Alpha Tauri in the off-season : "the first Racing Bulls car will have, in addition to the pull rod front suspension of the RB19, sidepods that are an evolution of those seen on the AT04 but with characteristics taken from Mclaren and Aston Martin ". I'm happy to revisit this if it proves wrong

AMuS and Alpine seem to have a similar relationship - willing to spill inside info on a select basis but nonetheless info that most publications would in no way have access to.

So I disagree that it's only Ferrari this happens with.

I agree Re: the off-season that it is prime time of year to take advantage of hopeful sentiment of the tifosi (and the same goes for every team), and that they are certainly capitalising on this. However I don't think all of their takes are so unbelievable. With one question you can ask: will the undercut be larger? And a vague answer like "yes, more like rb" can tell you many things: they have less outwashing sidepods, more undercut, anti-intrusion cone must be incorporated into the floor, must adopt a more conventional outer fence to compensate for less wake control from sidepod.. you see how it might happen? But it's not plucked out of thin air in my opinion

One final example: was it not in 2021 that none other than Nunges and Motorsport Italy reported that the F1-75 would have a triangular airbox? Yeah . Nothing ever leaks

I wonder how this guy can know all these things.

The translated tweet says a lot more. Why should we believe him?

Translation (by Google and me, the Spanish GP is that of 2023):

(Snipped quote)

All these journalists who claim to know what kind of front wing, gearbox, sidepods, suspension or whatever the new Ferrari has or how much less weight it has or doesn't have - that's all completely stupid talk, sorry. These people just make stuff up because they don't know anything but have pages to fill. Funnily enough, you only hear such things about the new Ferraris, but not about the new Red Bull, Mercedes or McLaren, Aston Martin etc. In an F1 team there are only a handful of engineers who actually know all the details about the car from front to back and these people don't blab this to journalists. And I can only repeat it - especially at Ferrari there are very strict contracts and an engineer needs permission to speak to the press at all. But either way - these senior engineers, just like the other teams, don't willingly tell everything about the car that will be presented in four weeks and is top secret. So sorry if I have to say it again - but these journalists who pretend to know all sorts of things are all vapor talkers who write made-up things. Because they don't know anything, just like nobody knows what the new Red Bull looks like. It's just the typical annual storytelling of Italian journalists who exploit the emotions of the millions of Ferrari fans in order to "make a splash".

What do you make of them getting fed info from Ferrari during the season then? How else do they release info about engine penalties, causes of DNFs, reasons behind pace issues in a session etc well before anyone else? There is clearly a special relationship

The same goes for formu1a.uno and AT, the only other Italian team. They reported immediately after Singapore that the rb19 suspension was brought; lo and behold they admit it at abu dhabi. Now they write articles like this about Alpha Tauri in the off-season : "the first Racing Bulls car will have, in addition to the pull rod front suspension of the RB19, sidepods that are an evolution of those seen on the AT04 but with characteristics taken from Mclaren and Aston Martin ". I'm happy to revisit this if it proves wrong

AMuS and Alpine seem to have a similar relationship - willing to spill inside info on a select basis but nonetheless info that most publications would in no way have access to.

So I disagree that it's only Ferrari this happens with.

I agree Re: the off-season that it is prime time of year to take advantage of hopeful sentiment of the tifosi (and the same goes for every team), and that they are certainly capitalising on this. However I don't think all of their takes are so unbelievable. With one question you can ask: will the undercut be larger? And a vague answer like "yes, more like rb" can tell you many things: they have less outwashing sidepods, more undercut, anti-intrusion cone must be incorporated into the floor, must adopt a more conventional outer fence to compensate for less wake control from sidepod.. you see how it might happen? But it's not plucked out of thin air in my opinion

One final example: was it not in 2021 that none other than Nunges and Motorsport Italy reported that the F1-75 would have a triangular airbox? Yeah . Nothing ever leaks

During the season and before the season are two completely different things. The things you are talking about - engine penalties, reasons for DNFs - these are things that are part of normal reporting during the season and are not big secrets. It's quite another thing to report on a car that is weeks away from its presentation. I may have expressed myself a little unhappily - of course you find out one or two unimportant details, such as that the airbox will be triangular. That's also a completely logical thing, because at the end of the day you talk to journalists a lot and in all those conversations you sometimes reveal an unimportant detail, you can't always say nothing at all. That has always been the case and always will be. But the sheer mass of information that all sorts of people currently want to know about SF24 - and that's what I meant - won't get out. And some of it, if not most of it, is made up. I hate to have to say and write such things - but I know many of the engineers no less than these journalists, just as I know their contracts. It's also the case that only a handful of engineers know all the details about the car. F1 is very specialized these days and an engineer working on the front wing has no idea what the car looks like at the rear unless he is the head of the department. With the masses of information being written right now, that would mean that almost every department is willingly giving information to the press and sorry, I know a lot of these people and talk to them often enough myself, these people don't do that, especially as every one of them would risk their job if they did because every Ferrari engineer has a clause in their contract that says they can't talk to journalists about Ferrari related things without permission. The exception is GP weekends for which there is an extra clause, so those are different. But be that as it may, I may have expressed myself somewhat incorrectly. It may well be that one or two unimportant details that are written are correct. But these are then deliberately scattered. But the current abundance of information that is allegedly coming to the public thanks to "contacts within Maranello" - most of it is fictitious and does not correspond to the facts. These are conclusions that were already identified last year as development directions or possibilities for the new car. And these are now being sold as facts that they claim to have heard from Maranello. It is simply not true that many of Ferrari's engineers (because it would take the indiscretion of several engineers from several departments to find out all these things) were openly revealing them weeks before the presentation, say these things. Or one of the senior engineers, but they wouldn't say anything like that at this point, however good the contacts are. I hope I've made it a bit clearer what I mean this time.

[gordonthegun]

"Ferrari: some additional details from @CorSport about the presentation of the 2024 car on February 13th.

- Very limited event, with very few guests and at a distance. Neither fans nor press will be present.
- The location is the Fiorano track, where the car will cover a maximum of 15 kilometers on February 13 to check if everything is working well.
- The actual filming day (maximum 200 kilometers) will take place one or two days later.":

[S D]

I fail to see the issues with any of these leaks. It doesn't matter if they are accurate or not.
Ferrari will lighten the car. Is there a team in F1 that will not design to lose a few kilos?
Moving the crash bars to the floor. It was talked about openly for a long time.
Improve engine reliability. Every engine manufacturer will do so if they can.
Nose cone redesign. Every team will look at their nose cone to see if there are improvements.
Front wing tweaks, sounds reasonable.
Front suspension tweaks, sounds reasonable.
Belly redesign. Seems to me that every team has had multiple iterations.
On and on. These leaks, true or not, are inconsequential. Obviously teams will work on weak points budget permitting. The question is what improvements will they be able to see on the track.
The singular reason to be secretive is to not alert the competition to some aspect that they have not considered.
I fail to see what info we see is beneficial to a competitor.
It's what is not printed and passed on by spies that is consequential.

[jambuka]

Will SF24 reveal be streamed ? Also where is the video for engine fire up?

[gordonthegun]

Will SF24 reveal be streamed ? Also where is the video for engine fire up?

It will be streamed, otherwise it won't be a car presentation. No engine fire up so far.

[jambuka]

Reading about rumors about gains per lap feels like at testing RB will be followed by Mclaren/Merc 2nd and Ferrari will be 3rd.