2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Andi76]

I think it's difficult to conclude anything without understanding if the conditions for each run are the same. Should we should assume the fuel load is the same?

The last few seasons suggest they do run quite similar fuel levels, while Mercedes and McLaren usually run with higher fuel loads.

The laptimes were set at different times of day. I don't really understand what context allows one to assume the fuel loads were the same. On the surface, they look like random laps at different times of day where the only thing in common is the tire.

As I just said - in the past few seasons, Red Bull and Ferrari have run similar fuel loads. And teams don't normally change this fundamentally from one season to the next. So it's quite obvious that Red Bull and Ferrari are running similar fuel loads as in previous years.

[AR3-GP]

The last few seasons suggest they do run quite similar fuel levels, while Mercedes and McLaren usually run with higher fuel loads.

The laptimes were set at different times of day. I don't really understand what context allows one to assume the fuel loads were the same. On the surface, they look like random laps at different times of day where the only thing in common is the tire.

As I just said - in the past few seasons, Red Bull and Ferrari have run similar fuel loads. And teams don't normally change this fundamentally from one season to the next. So it's quite obvious that Red Bull and Ferrari are running similar fuel loads as in previous years.

I understand what you are saying, but then when I look at the telemetry and other variables it doesn't really make sense. If Verstappen has the advantage of the night session and similar fuel load then he should be quicker than Sainz in every type of corner. If he's not despite better track conditions, then I don't see why anyone thinks RB is stronger than Ferrari.

[Andi76]

The laptimes were set at different times of day. I don't really understand what context allows one to assume the fuel loads were the same. On the surface, they look like random laps at different times of day where the only thing in common is the tire.

As I just said - in the past few seasons, Red Bull and Ferrari have run similar fuel loads. And teams don't normally change this fundamentally from one season to the next. So it's quite obvious that Red Bull and Ferrari are running similar fuel loads as in previous years.

I understand what you are saying, but then when I look at the telemetry and other variables it doesn't really make sense. If Verstappen has the advantage of the night session and similar fuel load then he should be quicker than Sainz in every type of corner. If he's not despite better track conditions, then I don't see why anyone thinks RB is stronger than Ferrari.

Why should Verstappen be better than Sainz in any kind of corner? So the car characteristics no longer play a role if the track is "better"? Sorry if I doubt that very much, because it contradicts practically everything I have ever learned and experienced. Just as it is not clear to me why, if everything is so meaningless and not comparable because nothing is known, everyone can say that Red Bull is stronger than Ferrari...that makes little sense to me now and is quite contradictory.

[AR3-GP]

As I just said - in the past few seasons, Red Bull and Ferrari have run similar fuel loads. And teams don't normally change this fundamentally from one season to the next. So it's quite obvious that Red Bull and Ferrari are running similar fuel loads as in previous years.

I understand what you are saying, but then when I look at the telemetry and other variables it doesn't really make sense. If Verstappen has the advantage of the night session and similar fuel load then he should be quicker than Sainz in every type of corner. If he's not despite better track conditions, then I don't see why anyone thinks RB is stronger than Ferrari.

Why should Verstappen be better than Sainz in any kind of corner? So the car characteristics no longer play a role if the track is "better"? Sorry if I doubt that very much, because it contradicts practically everything I have ever learned and experienced. Just as it is not clear to me why, if everything is so meaningless and not comparable because nothing is known, everyone can say that Red Bull is stronger than Ferrari...that makes little sense to me now and is quite contradictory.

Because the track has more grip when it is cooler and if they were on the same fuel loads and Ferrari think they are 0.5 second behind RB, then yes Verstappen should be quicker almost everywhere given what we know of their car, what worked well, what they improved over the winter, and the benefit of a cooler and more rubbered in track.

Everything isn't meaningless. Remember that I only said initially that while it is possible to make comparisons, I don't feel that this one is the right one to make. It makes more sense to me to compare Sainz's 32.5 in the morning session to Verstappen's 32.5 in the morning session. In this comparison, both drivers seem to have comparable engine modes based on velocity trace and if what you say is true, they were on relatively similar fuel loads as well.

In this comparison, Ferrari isn't convincingly better in the low speed. Very comparable to RB however.

[CouncilorIrissa]

According to them Ferrari estimate their deficit to RB at 5 tenths (visible in one of tweet replies)

5 tenths is ughhhhhhhh
But I guess that's the price we have to pay for losing a whole year of development.

[Sevach]

https://www.racefans.net/2024/02/22/red ... d-leclerc/

Charles view of the current pecking order and Ferrari's perspectives.
I think he's more or less correct.

[AR3-GP]

According to them Ferrari estimate their deficit to RB at 5 tenths (visible in one of tweet replies)

5 tenths is ughhhhhhhh
But I guess that's the price we have to pay for losing a whole year of development.

It would be the same gap as the end of last year, according to Carlos Sainz. So at least, Ferrari matched the development of RB.

[CouncilorIrissa]

According to them Ferrari estimate their deficit to RB at 5 tenths (visible in one of tweet replies)

5 tenths is ughhhhhhhh
But I guess that's the price we have to pay for losing a whole year of development.

It would be the same gap as the end of last year, according to Carlos Sainz. So at least, Ferrari matched the development of RB.

Kinda? It didn't feel like it was 5 tenths in the last races, but I guess it's more of a case of AD and LV flattering the SF23.

[dialtone]

I understand what you are saying, but then when I look at the telemetry and other variables it doesn't really make sense. If Verstappen has the advantage of the night session and similar fuel load then he should be quicker than Sainz in every type of corner. If he's not despite better track conditions, then I don't see why anyone thinks RB is stronger than Ferrari.

I'm sorry but what are you looking to obtain here? Everyone is going around saying RB is 7 laps per race ahead of anyone despite Checo's race sim being terrible. It's all high level analysis, it's a fair guess and clearly people choose their parameters to arrive at their conclusion, if you don't agree it's fine I think.

[Seanspeed]

https://www.racefans.net/2024/02/22/red ... d-leclerc/

Charles view of the current pecking order and Ferrari's perspectives.
I think he's more or less correct.

“In terms of driveability, the car is a lot better compared to last year,” he said.

That's a big endorsement right there.

[JPower]

https://www.racefans.net/2024/02/22/red ... d-leclerc/

Charles view of the current pecking order and Ferrari's perspectives.
I think he's more or less correct.

“In terms of driveability, the car is a lot better compared to last year,” he said.

That's a big endorsement right there.

Is it?

Both drivers said last year's car was an absolutely evil car to drive at times.

[AR3-GP]

I understand what you are saying, but then when I look at the telemetry and other variables it doesn't really make sense. If Verstappen has the advantage of the night session and similar fuel load then he should be quicker than Sainz in every type of corner. If he's not despite better track conditions, then I don't see why anyone thinks RB is stronger than Ferrari.

I'm sorry but what are you looking to obtain here? Everyone is going around saying RB is 7 laps per race ahead of anyone despite Checo's race sim being terrible. It's all high level analysis, it's a fair guess and clearly people choose their parameters to arrive at their conclusion, if you don't agree it's fine I think.

My point was to compare Sainz's 32.5 to Verstappen's 32.5 in the same session.

viewtopic.php?p=1189445#p1189445

[dialtone]

I understand what you are saying, but then when I look at the telemetry and other variables it doesn't really make sense. If Verstappen has the advantage of the night session and similar fuel load then he should be quicker than Sainz in every type of corner. If he's not despite better track conditions, then I don't see why anyone thinks RB is stronger than Ferrari.

I'm sorry but what are you looking to obtain here? Everyone is going around saying RB is 7 laps per race ahead of anyone despite Checo's race sim being terrible. It's all high level analysis, it's a fair guess and clearly people choose their parameters to arrive at their conclusion, if you don't agree it's fine I think.

My point was to compare Sainz's 32.5 to Verstappen's 32.5 in the same session. Theres a graph a few post above.

I get that, but Andy just took the 2 fastest laps by each driver to compare them and made some judgements. I would respect the educated guess of someone like Andy no?

[Sevach]

https://www.racefans.net/2024/02/22/red ... d-leclerc/

Charles view of the current pecking order and Ferrari's perspectives.
I think he's more or less correct.

“In terms of driveability, the car is a lot better compared to last year,” he said.

That's a big endorsement right there.

Is it?

Both drivers said last year's car was an absolutely evil car to drive at times.

This one being "predictable" is a step in the right direction, once they figure out where they lose time they can begin to address it and it's highly likely that it makes it easier for drivers to administer the tires during a race.

An unpredictable car that understeer in a certain corner but oversteer in another is hard to fix, you can't simply crank up more front wing to cure the understeer because it will make the corners where it oversteers extra hard.

That and the fact that last season Ferrari had to deal with a chassis that wasn't perfectly suited for the upgrades they were bringing.

[dialtone]

https://www.racefans.net/2024/02/22/red ... d-leclerc/

Charles view of the current pecking order and Ferrari's perspectives.
I think he's more or less correct.

“In terms of driveability, the car is a lot better compared to last year,” he said.

That's a big endorsement right there.

Is it?

Both drivers said last year's car was an absolutely evil car to drive at times.

It is, but not as big as Gary Anderson saying it’s a bad car, that’s more like a quality seal.