Christian Horner under Investigation

[CHT]

Max to Merc for 2025?

Toto: anything is possible

CH to Merc?

[Ferry]

Why is Jos even in the paddock? What now for Max, support for Horner or for dad? Can't have it both ways. Max to Mercedes seems wild, but maybe not impossible? Easier to beat Red Bull without Max driving it. And if the Ford deal goes west because of Horner, RB might have the weakest engine in -26.
Just can't figure out why they want Horner out. Isn't he doing a damned good job as TP/CEO?

[f1isgood]

Why is Jos even in the paddock? What now for Max, support for Horner or for dad? Can't have it both ways. Max to Mercedes seems wild, but maybe not impossible? Easier to beat Red Bull without Max driving it. And if the Ford deal goes west because of Horner, RB might have the weakest engine in -26.
Just can't figure out why they want Horner out. Isn't he doing a damned good job as TP/CEO?

My personal theory is that maybe Jos et al would have preferred partnering up with Porsche for the 2026 regulations and likely have not much trust in RBPT. 2026 is a big gamble by RB to make their own engine. Ford is mostly for branding and money -- 30mil a year if I am not wrong. Horner et al didn't want to give up majority control to Porsche or something along those lines, which is why the deal didn't go through.

I can see why Max to Merc makes sense personally. Who else to trust than Merc to make a good engine in F1? And 2026 onwards it would be very surprising if RBPT is immediately as good as Merc. Also Hamilton is now out and Merc need a new star driver. Who else is the better option than the potentially 5 time WDC?

[Cold Fussion]

Why would Horner resign now of his own volition now? He's had his employer public say the case against him has been dismissed, and the the dirty laundry to provide leverage to get him to resign has already been released publicly. The only logic i can see to that outcome is the report has determined he has committed a serious ethical violation and either recommends or strongly suggests he should be removed and Red Bull hasn't followed that advice. This also requires the leaker to be fully aware of the outcomes of the report, while also not having access it, because if they had leaked this report he would most likely have been fired within a day of it leaking. If the report is like this, I suspect Horner is living on borrowed time and will either resign or be fired soon.

[chrisc90]

Maybe Jos is a little sad that RB didnt get the Porsche deal, given that Max is in the process of setting up his own GT3 team. /speculation.

[chrisc90]

Why would Horner resign now of his own volition now? He's had his employer public say the case against him has been dismissed, and the the dirty laundry to provide leverage to get him to resign has already been released publicly. The only logic i can see to that outcome is the report has determined he has committed a serious ethical violation and either recommends or strongly suggests he should be removed and Red Bull hasn't followed that advice. This also requires the leaker to be fully aware of the outcomes of the report, while also not having access it, because if they had leaked this report he would most likely have been fired within a day of it leaking. If the report is like this, I suspect Horner is living on borrowed time and will either resign or be fired soon.

Horner wont leave on his own accord I don't think, in my opinion.
It would take RB to fire him (or come to a mutual agreement as the term often is these days). That would of course mean that RB HQ has to go back on their word about clearing him of any wrong-doing.

Horner will stay. It really wouldn't surprise me if other teams in the paddock are behind it, given they know just how much advantage RB has, and its there to de-stabilise them (which wont happen), get Horner to be fired (which didn't happen) or remove attention away from Max/RB winning ways and create bad press instead.

[basti313]

Maybe Jos is a little sad that RB didnt get the Porsche deal, given that Max is in the process of setting up his own GT3 team. /speculation.

Jos mainly may dislike Horny for the 2016 seat discussions. It was Marko who pushed Max into the seat.
But the issue for RedBull is, this leads to nothing. Jos is an a**hole and will be in the future. If they sack Horner now for calming the situation, it will be similarly tricky for the next CEO.

[basti313]

Why is Jos even in the paddock? What now for Max, support for Horner or for dad? Can't have it both ways. Max to Mercedes seems wild, but maybe not impossible? Easier to beat Red Bull without Max driving it. And if the Ford deal goes west because of Horner, RB might have the weakest engine in -26.
Just can't figure out why they want Horner out. Isn't he doing a damned good job as TP/CEO?

My personal theory is that maybe Jos et al would have preferred partnering up with Porsche for the 2026 regulations and likely have not much trust in RBPT. 2026 is a big gamble by RB to make their own engine. Ford is mostly for branding and money -- 30mil a year if I am not wrong. Horner et al didn't want to give up majority control to Porsche or something along those lines, which is why the deal didn't go through.

I can see why Max to Merc makes sense personally. Who else to trust than Merc to make a good engine in F1? And 2026 onwards it would be very surprising if RBPT is immediately as good as Merc. Also Hamilton is now out and Merc need a new star driver. Who else is the better option than the potentially 5 time WDC?

Hamilton has the best nose in F1 where to go to win. That Hamilton left Merc has a reason, it clearly tells that he is convinced that Ferrari will be better in 2026...they are already now.
I guess they will use all politics to be able to stay at RedBull and Newey for 2026 and they want to win 2025. Moving away from RedBull means loosing the 2025 title as the situation is today, we should not forget this.

[Mansell89]

What are the relative positions/tensions here then guys?

Horner
Marko
Thai Owners
Austrian Owners

Where and what problems lie here?

It seems fairly clear there is a major power struggle but I’m trying to understand the basics of where people are not aligned, and moreover, why not?

[Watto]

Why is Jos even in the paddock? What now for Max, support for Horner or for dad? Can't have it both ways. Max to Mercedes seems wild, but maybe not impossible? Easier to beat Red Bull without Max driving it. And if the Ford deal goes west because of Horner, RB might have the weakest engine in -26.
Just can't figure out why they want Horner out. Isn't he doing a damned good job as TP/CEO?

My personal theory is that maybe Jos et al would have preferred partnering up with Porsche for the 2026 regulations and likely have not much trust in RBPT. 2026 is a big gamble by RB to make their own engine. Ford is mostly for branding and money -- 30mil a year if I am not wrong. Horner et al didn't want to give up majority control to Porsche or something along those lines, which is why the deal didn't go through.

I can see why Max to Merc makes sense personally. Who else to trust than Merc to make a good engine in F1? And 2026 onwards it would be very surprising if RBPT is immediately as good as Merc. Also Hamilton is now out and Merc need a new star driver. Who else is the better option than the potentially 5 time WDC?

Hamilton has the best nose in F1 where to go to win. That Hamilton left Merc has a reason, it clearly tells that he is convinced that Ferrari will be better in 2026...they are already now.
I guess they will use all politics to be able to stay at RedBull and Newey for 2026 and they want to win 2025. Moving away from RedBull means loosing the 2025 title as the situation is today, we should not forget this.

with Lewis I wonder if he known now he won’t or is very unlikely win an 8th WDC. He can go to Ferrari and maybe not win one with them but maybe help them turn things around set them up in the following years - Lewis/Bono have always been pretty good with race strategy Ferrari for years have been abysmal there are areas he can influence

[venkyhere]

Whatever route taken - leave of absence/ suspension etc; Horner needs to remove himself from the F1 eye & tackle the scandal head on. Yesterday’s photo op hand-in-hand with the wife, with Bin Sulayem & the Thais was poorly considered - no one is better for it.

His presence is a distraction; he absolutely doesn’t need to be front & centre which is the most frustrating part. That this is one of the most popular threads on here is telling, I’m quite tired of this nonsense personally but have no way to distance myself, it’s ever present.

Are the TV cameras (F1tv, sky) even showing a glimpse of him, during the race weekend ? I wouldn't know he was present at the Sakhir GP, had it not been for some photos posted in this thread.

If they are purposely not showing CH, what could be the reason ?
a) CH has explicitly requested the TV overlords (though FIA) to not show him
b) TV crew are 'woke' and are showing their dissatisfaction at his exoneration by not showing him.

Whatever it is, I thought it a good thing that he is not being shown.

[Watto]

What are the relative positions/tensions here then guys?

Horner
Marko
Thai Owners
Austrian Owners

Where and what problems lie here?

It seems fairly clear there is a major power struggle but I’m trying to understand the basics of where people are not aligned, and moreover, why not?

the rumours seem to suggest the Thai owner supports Horner, the Thai owner owns51% the Austrian owner (49%)seem from the rumours want Horner out,rumours have Marko as wanting Horner gone too but they are just rumours

[101FlyingDutchman]

What are the relative positions/tensions here then guys?

Horner
Marko
Thai Owners
Austrian Owners

Where and what problems lie here?

It seems fairly clear there is a major power struggle but I’m trying to understand the basics of where people are not aligned, and moreover, why not?

Most of it is supposition. There are nowhere near enough facts out to deduce anything. However Mateschitz’s death seems to have shifted the sands internally on governance. I think Horner wanted more independence and just use Red Bull branding whilst having total autonomy, whereas Mintzlaff (likely) saw a Porsche deal as the better future.
Now it seems Horner won that battle and got his RBPT/Ford deal but he might be losing the war.
This is in total guess work but this is how it looks!

That does not excuse Horner in any way IF (and this is still a big IF) if those screenshots are his or even part his. Office romances (short and long term) happen the world over, but a no is a no.
Where there is smoke, there is fire. But without the facts I can’t make any useful deduction

[bluechris]

Whatever route taken - leave of absence/ suspension etc; Horner needs to remove himself from the F1 eye & tackle the scandal head on. Yesterday’s photo op hand-in-hand with the wife, with Bin Sulayem & the Thais was poorly considered - no one is better for it.

His presence is a distraction; he absolutely doesn’t need to be front & centre which is the most frustrating part. That this is one of the most popular threads on here is telling, I’m quite tired of this nonsense personally but have no way to distance myself, it’s ever present.

Are the TV cameras (F1tv, sky) even showing a glimpse of him, during the race weekend ? I wouldn't know he was present at the Sakhir GP, had it not been for some photos posted in this thread.

If they are purposely not showing CH, what could be the reason ?
a) CH has explicitly requested the TV overlords (though FIA) to not show him
b) TV crew are 'woke' and are showing their dissatisfaction at his exoneration by not showing him.

Whatever it is, I thought it a good thing that he is not being shown.

It was like a woman silent treatment the overall behaviour of the media

[basti313]

My personal theory is that maybe Jos et al would have preferred partnering up with Porsche for the 2026 regulations and likely have not much trust in RBPT. 2026 is a big gamble by RB to make their own engine. Ford is mostly for branding and money -- 30mil a year if I am not wrong. Horner et al didn't want to give up majority control to Porsche or something along those lines, which is why the deal didn't go through.

I can see why Max to Merc makes sense personally. Who else to trust than Merc to make a good engine in F1? And 2026 onwards it would be very surprising if RBPT is immediately as good as Merc. Also Hamilton is now out and Merc need a new star driver. Who else is the better option than the potentially 5 time WDC?

Hamilton has the best nose in F1 where to go to win. That Hamilton left Merc has a reason, it clearly tells that he is convinced that Ferrari will be better in 2026...they are already now.
I guess they will use all politics to be able to stay at RedBull and Newey for 2026 and they want to win 2025. Moving away from RedBull means loosing the 2025 title as the situation is today, we should not forget this.

with Lewis I wonder if he known now he won’t or is very unlikely win an 8th WDC. He can go to Ferrari and maybe not win one with them but maybe help them turn things around set them up in the following years - Lewis/Bono have always been pretty good with race strategy Ferrari for years have been abysmal there are areas he can influence

He is going there to win, isn't he? The whole setup with moving to them one year before the rule change is to prepare to win. However this is done.
But let us stay on the topic: What should Max convince that Merc is a winner in 2026? As said...if there would bei 2013 money, Ham would have stayed.