Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Was Red Bull Technologies always under Redbull Corporate Projects and New Investments? Or was this something created after the death of Dietrich Mateschitz?
Did Chalerm Yoovidhya agree to this after the death of Dietrich Mateschitz?
Marko was reporting to Dietrich Mateschitz and was the eyes and ears of his, why should he now continue in this role?
Why does Max and Jos Verstappen feel Red Bull Technologies should be under Redbull Corporate Projects and New Investments?
Was Red Bull Technologies always under Redbull Corporate Projects and New Investments? Or was this something created after the death of Dietrich Mateschitz?
Did Chalerm Yoovidhya agree to this after the death of Dietrich Mateschitz?
Marko was reporting to Dietrich Mateschitz and was the eyes and ears of his, why should he now continue in this role?
Why does Max and Jos Verstappen feel Red Bull Technologies should be under Redbull Corporate Projects and New Investments?
Why cannot Red Bull Technologies be independent?
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What do these questions have to do with Horners investigation?
.
From Wikipedia
Red Bull Technology is a subsidiary of the Formula 1 team Red Bull Racing. The company was founded by the team to design,
build and further develop the Formula 1 car. It also manufactured parts for other Formula 1 teams, such as Team Lotus.
The company's two best-known employees at the moment are aerodynamicist Adrian Newey and Toro Rosso technical director Giorgio Ascanelli.
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RB Technologies started when RBR started the F1 team.
You certainly don't know that Jos wasn't there last weekend because he had to drive a rally that he won by force majeure?!
Jos also said the apps in the mails were real and Max replied with saying his father never lies, which is a fact.
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OMG! Facebook!!
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it's the official FB page of the Hannut rally, with the full entry list, and Jos wasn't on it. So, it wasn't in his diary for ages and him unluckily having this prior commitment And I saw him say somewhere he's expecting to be doing some more rallies now. And I couldn't help noticing that Max wasn't threatening to leave if Jos wasn't staying hanging around the garage.
But what do you think of the other points I made? I mean, there are two forms of the chats aren't there, a semi-public one and a secret one. One is editable and one is, guess what, not! You really think they're identical? If they are, we could do with an explanation for one of them being secret, couldn't we?
Cos on the face of it, Red Bull are way, way, way out on a limb dismissing the complaint, if the actual chat is the same.
No, I primarily contradicted the claim that Red Bull had said that.
There's a difference between someone saying something and someone else claiming to have said something.
But that should be clear enough now.
grammatically speaking, you said they didn't say it . But anyway yes, I am just teasing about that tbh. What we have is BBC Sport saying they were told RED Bull told her she was being suspended for dishonesty. So far, we agree Then what do we believe? Nobody has quoted anything contrary have they? BBC have a good track record for these things.
So afaic it belongs in my body of evidence, as a clue to what's been going on. It's consistent with all the other things I've listed.
Also the results and a little interview on the official page.
yes he did the rally, the question was whether he always planned to do it, or if he did it at the last minute, as a cover for being chucked out of the F1 garage.
Also the results and a little interview on the official page.
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yes he did the rally, the question was whether he always planned to do it, or if he did it at the last minute, as a cover for being chucked out of the F1 garage.
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OMG! How long are you going to go on about this?! You really want to hear that Jos has been denied access to the RBR garage!
I have to disappoint you.
Last year the list was already announced on the Verstappen website in which rallies Jos will participate this year
and these two weekends were included.
Did you used to have an avatar with one ear and a light green crocodile earring here, before you haven't posted here for the past two years? Then this is my last response to you.
One question I've yet to find a definitive answer to (at least I haven't seen it), who actually filed the complaint against Horner? Was it the Woman, or someone else?
No, I primarily contradicted the claim that Red Bull had said that.
There's a difference between someone saying something and someone else claiming to have said something.
But that should be clear enough now.
You're right but in the event the statement was true, RB wouldn't say that publicly or any reason for that matter would only lead to too much conjecture/speculation but with some 1400/1500 people at RBR they'd get the informatioin from 'unofficial' sources.
With Sawards article I guess he still leaves a lot up to conjecture its possible the mis/disinformation he he is referring to is simply the statements about Horner being sacked, the woman being sacked, Horner/RBR paying her to drop the complaint and not the leaked messages. Still fits the comment I posted.
For me its something had been missing for a in this whole things. First was bout controlling behavior but not a sexual complaint. Then it became a sexual/sexting complaint. When the messages leaked I was probably under the feeling they were fake. The one image that looked AI/photoshopped/filter doubt on the authenticity of one it comes across to them all.
Then the lack of any strong denial and perhaps things like how well calculated the email list was make me thing they were very likely real. Not an overly strong feeling but where I was at, that being the case Horner had to go if that was the case.
Sawards articles though still had me thinking that there was a fair bit of truth in them but maybe some fabricated ones. Makes things messy RBR can’t deny the messages as there is some truth to them, the report that the woman had a legal letter regarding being dishonest could easily lead you to believe that But even if it was its needs to be confirmed/investigated.
The talk about the KC report on either RBGmbH burying it/ignoring it based on the support of the Thai owner that wanted Horner to stay. That he may have had the terms of the report crafted in a way that he was never going to find strong evidence against Horner for dismissal because that was not the terms of his investigation , Fair enough and I think warranted. But something there doesn’t really add up for me either. The Austrian side of RBGmbH wanted Horner gone, there have been leaks particularly that seem to have come from the Austrian side of RB for a while the messages, wanting Horner gone, Newey might leave if Horner remains, Max might leaves, the woman is preparing to go public, she is preparing to launch legal action has so far come to nothing . Yet in all of this nothing about this report has gone public no unofficial leak on the KC having findings against Horner when the Austrians tried to strong arm him out the door (the claim early on they had their own report tried to remove him say he was leaving for family reason or something and not cop a backlash) until the Thai owner of RB stepped in not a detail of the report has leaked against Horner of if the report was designed to clear Horner from the start that if he cleared Horner on a technicality. everything so much else has leaked about this in one way or the other and this has remained so – if both sides of RBGmbH were in agreement then you wouldn’t ever see it until maybe a disgruntled employee leaked it later that had access. This hasn’t happened I think it just a little off when the Austrian side want him gone.
Sawards blogs and follow up answers just don’t come across to me as someone who hasn’t properly investigated this and come up with flimsy evidence to back his opinion i.e. KC said hw was cleared I’ll find anything that may explain this without checks and balances. Ultimately you are only as good as the information you have and his could easily be missing some key details his sources don’t know about. But feel hes done enough checks and balances to with what ever contacts he has to not just be as so lazy as to do that.
Last edited by Watto on 14 Mar 2024, 01:38, edited 1 time in total.
One question I've yet to find a definitive answer to (at least I haven't seen it), who actually filed the complaint against Horner? Was it the Woman, or someone else?
There was the article in Business F1 magazine that published an article referring to her. Which Horners legal team had threatened.
In Saward blog a follow up QA.
Very good article Joe. One question, how certain are you the female employee works for Horner?
Red Bull is a big company and the F1 racing team is a small part of it. I think marketing and logistics people from the energy drink side frequently turn up at races and promotional events – they would work with or around Horner but not have a reporting line to him.
I ask because it seems like the theory that would best fit available evidence is that the texts and relationship were real, but there was no reporting relationship – so no cause of action for the company as determined by the KC. What two employees with no reporting line get up to on their own time is (legally) none of the company’s business unless it becomes harassment by one party.
That would make all the demands for Horner to go or “more transparency” dead on arrival. If it’s legally none of the company’s business, taking action against CH or even commenting would open Red Bull up to their own legal jeopardy.
Reply
One question I've yet to find a definitive answer to (at least I haven't seen it), who actually filed the complaint against Horner? Was it the Woman, or someone else?
Here are a list of possibilities
1 Women 》Jos 》 RB
2 Women 》RB
3 Women 》Marko 》 RB
4 Women 》Journalist 》RB
One question I've yet to find a definitive answer to (at least I haven't seen it), who actually filed the complaint against Horner? Was it the Woman, or someone else?
There was the article in Business F1 magazine that published an article referring to her. Which Horners legal team had threatened.
1 Women 》Jos 》 RB
2 Women 》RB
3 Women 》Marko 》 RB
4 Women 》Journalist 》RB
Not questioning the validity of the complaint, nor the screenshots. I happen to believe they are real, albeit a small sample of potentially many more messages, and other actions/behaviors possibly by both of them. I am just questioning whether SHE was the one who complained, or if someone else brought it to the attention of RB which would force them to investigate. I just wonder whether she thought it was bad enough to complain, if SHE thought the situation was bad enough to warrant RB needing to intervene and take action.
Was Red Bull Technologies always under Redbull Corporate Projects and New Investments? Or was this something created after the death of Dietrich Mateschitz?
Did Chalerm Yoovidhya agree to this after the death of Dietrich Mateschitz?
Marko was reporting to Dietrich Mateschitz and was the eyes and ears of his, why should he now continue in this role?
Why does Max and Jos Verstappen feel Red Bull Technologies should be under Redbull Corporate Projects and New Investments?
Why cannot Red Bull Technologies be independent?
.
What do these questions have to do with Horners investigation?
.
From Wikipedia
Red Bull Technology is a subsidiary of the Formula 1 team Red Bull Racing. The company was founded by the team to design,
build and further develop the Formula 1 car. It also manufactured parts for other Formula 1 teams, such as Team Lotus.
The company's two best-known employees at the moment are aerodynamicist Adrian Newey and Toro Rosso technical director Giorgio Ascanelli.
.
RB Technologies started when RBR started the F1 team.
The horner investigation is over, what is lingering around is who/why Red Bull Technologies reports to?
And why Max Verstappen has to have an opinion on it?
Was Red Bull Technologies always under Redbull Corporate Projects and New Investments? Or was this something created after the death of Dietrich Mateschitz?
Did Chalerm Yoovidhya agree to this after the death of Dietrich Mateschitz?
Marko was reporting to Dietrich Mateschitz and was the eyes and ears of his, why should he now continue in this role?
Why does Max and Jos Verstappen feel Red Bull Technologies should be under Redbull Corporate Projects and New Investments?
Why cannot Red Bull Technologies be independent?
.
What do these questions have to do with Horners investigation?
.
From Wikipedia
Red Bull Technology is a subsidiary of the Formula 1 team Red Bull Racing. The company was founded by the team to design,
build and further develop the Formula 1 car. It also manufactured parts for other Formula 1 teams, such as Team Lotus.
The company's two best-known employees at the moment are aerodynamicist Adrian Newey and Toro Rosso technical director Giorgio Ascanelli.
.
RB Technologies started when RBR started the F1 team.
The horner investigation is over, what is lingering around is who/why Red Bull Technologies reports to?
And why Max Verstappen has to have an opinion on it?
Looking a RBGmbH make up there are 2 CEO, one for the beverage side of the business another for corporate projects and new investments. On paper I think they always probably reported to Oliver Mintzlaff (CEO Corporate Projects and New Investments), but think just in reality they Dieritch (and to an extent then Marko) were who really took control over that with him gone well...
With Max. Marko ran the RB junior driver program, which Max was a part of and pushed for Max to take the RB seat so I assume thre is some loyalty there that Marko had his back and for years under Dieritch, Marko called most of the shots they saw Horner as the face, if that makes sense.
.
What do these questions have to do with Horners investigation?
.
.
RB Technologies started when RBR started the F1 team.
The horner investigation is over, what is lingering around is who/why Red Bull Technologies reports to?
And why Max Verstappen has to have an opinion on it?
Looking a RBGmbH make up there are 2 CEO, one for the beverage side of the business another for corporate projects and new investments. On paper I think they always probably reported to Oliver Mintzlaff (CEO Corporate Projects and New Investments), but think just in reality they Dieritch (and to an extent then Marko) were who really took control over that with him gone well...
With Max. Marko ran the RB junior driver program, which Max was a part of and pushed for Max to take the RB seat so I assume thre is some loyalty there that Marko had his back and for years under Dieritch, Marko called most of the shots they saw Horner as the face, if that makes sense.
Oliver Mintzlaff was appointed after death of Mateschitz in Nov 22, till then he was in the soccer club.
Why should it not be CH as CEO of Red Bull Technologies report directly to the board of the holding company or even a separate holding company as this business is very large ?
I understand Red Bull has a lot of soccer investments, Oliver Mintzlaff may be the right person for it, but F1 and Soccer are vastly different. One deals with athletes who have not completed high school, other one deals with Phd in STEM.
Last edited by FW17 on 14 Mar 2024, 05:23, edited 1 time in total.
. But anyway yes, I am just teasing about that tbh. What we have is BBC Sport saying they were told RED Bull told her she was being suspended for dishonesty. So far, we agree 