2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Schumacher was embarrassed by Rosberg three years in a row. But that's quietly forgotten. Did Schumacher help to develop the title winning cars? No. No he did not.

I respect your fan perspective. But I am speaking from what I have read from team personnel. Wouldn't it be more authentic to believe them, than a fan with zero insider knowledge? Yes, Schumacher was beaten by Rosberg, same way George beat Lewis in 2022 and potentially, this year too. Does that really mean anything? If only because Schumacher was beaten by Rosberg his contributions be neglected, then so should Lewis', even if team comes out and lauds Lewis for his guidance and help in rebuilding the team. No?

Lewis is helping the team by trying things out, just as every driver helps the team when they try things out that might not lead to their own immediate success. Will next year's Merc benefit from the data generated by, for example, Lewis's choice of set up in the China race? Yes, to some small extent it will. Just as the Mercs in 2013 benefitted from data generated by Michael in 2012. Is it fair to say that Lewis is developing the 2025 Merc? No, it is not just as it isn't fair to say that Michael developed the title-winning hybrids that Lewis and Nico drove to such success.

My original comment was a joke but the idea of jokes seems to be a bit tricky for some to grasp when they're too busy casting shade on the team or one of its drivers in this thread.

Lewis helping the team? He is not Red Cross, he is a professional racing driver, and he is leaving the team. Of course, he is trying things for himself, not for the team. The same thing happened in '22 when he did the testing. Look at what Carlos is doing: racing hard. That's what Lewis should also be doing and not "offering" free lunches for George and Merc.

[DGP123]

F1-insider (German outlet who were getting fed information by Austrian/verstappen camp of red bull during the Horner saga and when Marko was being ousted at Saudi GP) report that Verstappen team will meet with Mercedes after Miami to see if a deal can be struck

https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-verstap ... gen-63046/

Says that Verstappen wants to bring engineers with him as well as Marko

It's game over for George Russell
Toto will take Max and Kimi so kimi can learn from max and be the future of the team

Pretty much. His fans won’t like hearing it, but sometimes F1 careers come and go, and fail to materialise into anything. F1 is about timing and the cards falling into place. Russell missed the boat in the last regulation, and now it looks like Toto is already lining up his new dream pairing in Max & Kimi. Max bringing staff with him, is also the golden ticket Toto has been looking for, in order to reenergise Merc’s failing technical team.

[CaribouBread]

Pretty much. His fans won’t like hearing it, but sometimes F1 careers come and go, and fail to materialise into anything. F1 is about timing and the cards falling into place. Russell missed the boat in the last regulation, and now it looks like Toto is already lining up his new dream pairing in Max & Kimi. Max bringing staff with him, is also the golden ticket Toto has been looking for, in order to reenergise Merc’s failing technical team.

I'm no Russel fan but I think he's done enough to establish that he's a capable and fast driver, and if free he wouldn't have *too* much trouble finding a seat (given he doesn't suffer from horrendous luck/timing). But as things look now, his Merc dream might not have materialized the way he wanted to.

[Venturiation]

Pretty much. His fans won’t like hearing it, but sometimes F1 careers come and go, and fail to materialise into anything. F1 is about timing and the cards falling into place. Russell missed the boat in the last regulation, and now it looks like Toto is already lining up his new dream pairing in Max & Kimi. Max bringing staff with him, is also the golden ticket Toto has been looking for, in order to reenergise Merc’s failing technical team.

I'm no Russel fan but I think he's done enough to establish that he's a capable and fast driver, and if free he wouldn't have *too* much trouble finding a seat (given he doesn't suffer from horrendous luck/timing). But as things look now, his Merc dream might not have materialized the way he wanted to.

haas is taken by bearman, audi wants 3 years with hulk and sainz
his options are going to be williams , alpine or redbull if they don't take their junior drivers

[cheeRS]

F1-insider (German outlet who were getting fed information by Austrian/verstappen camp of red bull during the Horner saga and when Marko was being ousted at Saudi GP) report that Verstappen team will meet with Mercedes after Miami to see if a deal can be struck

https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-verstap ... gen-63046/

Says that Verstappen wants to bring engineers with him as well as Marko

It's game over for George Russell
Toto will take Max and Kimi so kimi can learn from max and be the future of the team

Pretty much. His fans won’t like hearing it, but sometimes F1 careers come and go, and fail to materialise into anything. F1 is about timing and the cards falling into place. Russell missed the boat in the last regulation, and now it looks like Toto is already lining up his new dream pairing in Max & Kimi. Max bringing staff with him, is also the golden ticket Toto has been looking for, in order to reenergise Merc’s failing technical team.

I agree with that, with the exception that I think Russell would have a good chance to move to Redbull. With Max gone, Perez makes even less sense, so let's assume both seats are available. IMO Russell is a much better choice than both Riccardo and Tsunoda. Russell at Redbull could be the best move of his career.

I realize there is a lot of assumptions that are taken for granted here, but it's fun to speculate!

[Venturiation]

It's game over for George Russell
Toto will take Max and Kimi so kimi can learn from max and be the future of the team

Pretty much. His fans won’t like hearing it, but sometimes F1 careers come and go, and fail to materialise into anything. F1 is about timing and the cards falling into place. Russell missed the boat in the last regulation, and now it looks like Toto is already lining up his new dream pairing in Max & Kimi. Max bringing staff with him, is also the golden ticket Toto has been looking for, in order to reenergise Merc’s failing technical team.

I agree with that, with the exception that I think Russell would have a good chance to move to Redbull. With Max gone, Perez makes even less sense, so let's assume both seats are available. IMO Russell is a much better choice than both Riccardo and Tsunoda. Russell at Redbull could be the best move of his career.

I realize there is a lot of assumptions that are taken for granted here, but it's fun to speculate!

if the rumors are true redbull will be the worst choice, bad engine, technical team left with max

[Dunlay]

Pretty much. His fans won’t like hearing it, but sometimes F1 careers come and go, and fail to materialise into anything. F1 is about timing and the cards falling into place. Russell missed the boat in the last regulation, and now it looks like Toto is already lining up his new dream pairing in Max & Kimi. Max bringing staff with him, is also the golden ticket Toto has been looking for, in order to reenergise Merc’s failing technical team.

I agree with that, with the exception that I think Russell would have a good chance to move to Redbull. With Max gone, Perez makes even less sense, so let's assume both seats are available. IMO Russell is a much better choice than both Riccardo and Tsunoda. Russell at Redbull could be the best move of his career.

I realize there is a lot of assumptions that are taken for granted here, but it's fun to speculate!

if the rumors are true redbull will be the worst choice, bad engine, technical team left with max

Not sure which rumors you are talking because Marko, who is "rumoredly" moving to Mercedes if Max moves, has been going on and on about how RBPT is so far ahead on the engine side. You can't get a much closer source to talk about the state of affairs on the engine side than Marko himself. On the contrary, Mercedes engine side has been very quiet. That side has lost so many engineers to RBPT and currently 3rd best engine behind Honda and Ferrari. Does anyone know if Max is going to take his engineers in the garage or the engineers from the Red Bull design team with whom he would have very limited interactions, for that matter any driver. How many can Mercedes hire with them having to let go so many themselves because of cost cap? Of course these engineers aren't going to be coming for free or without a significant raise in their remuneration. Are they going to be the silver bullet to the Mercedes woes, who have struggled to understand their car for 3 straight years? Is Max going to bring hundreds of engineers that can replace every department of the car making? Easy said than done.

Nobody has crystal ball to know what happens in future, but given the current rate of progress at Red Bull, it's a safe bet to take up any offer that comes from Red Bull for George, rather than hope that Max and his coterie would bring some magic potion and revive the luck of Mercedes.

[Venturiation]

I agree with that, with the exception that I think Russell would have a good chance to move to Redbull. With Max gone, Perez makes even less sense, so let's assume both seats are available. IMO Russell is a much better choice than both Riccardo and Tsunoda. Russell at Redbull could be the best move of his career.

I realize there is a lot of assumptions that are taken for granted here, but it's fun to speculate!

if the rumors are true redbull will be the worst choice, bad engine, technical team left with max

Not sure which rumors you are talking because Marko, who is "rumoredly" moving to Mercedes if Max moves, has been going on and on about how RBPT is so far ahead on the engine side. You can't get a much closer source to talk about the state of affairs on the engine side than Marko himself. On the contrary, Mercedes engine side has been very quiet. That side has lost so many engineers to RBPT and currently 3rd best engine behind Honda and Ferrari. Does anyone know if Max is going to take his engineers in the garage or the engineers from the Red Bull design team with whom he would have very limited interactions, for that matter any driver. How many can Mercedes hire with them having to let go so many themselves because of cost cap? Of course these engineers aren't going to be coming for free or without a significant raise in their remuneration. Are they going to be the silver bullet to the Mercedes woes, who have struggled to understand their car for 3 straight years? Is Max going to bring hundreds of engineers that can replace every department of the car making? Easy said than done.

Nobody has crystal ball to know what happens in future, but given the current rate of progress at Red Bull, it's a safe bet to take up any offer that comes from Red Bull for George, rather than hope that Max and his coterie would bring some magic potion and revive the luck of Mercedes.

Horner and max recently complained about the engine

[Dunlay]

if the rumors are true redbull will be the worst choice, bad engine, technical team left with max

Not sure which rumors you are talking because Marko, who is "rumoredly" moving to Mercedes if Max moves, has been going on and on about how RBPT is so far ahead on the engine side. You can't get a much closer source to talk about the state of affairs on the engine side than Marko himself. On the contrary, Mercedes engine side has been very quiet. That side has lost so many engineers to RBPT and currently 3rd best engine behind Honda and Ferrari. Does anyone know if Max is going to take his engineers in the garage or the engineers from the Red Bull design team with whom he would have very limited interactions, for that matter any driver. How many can Mercedes hire with them having to let go so many themselves because of cost cap? Of course these engineers aren't going to be coming for free or without a significant raise in their remuneration. Are they going to be the silver bullet to the Mercedes woes, who have struggled to understand their car for 3 straight years? Is Max going to bring hundreds of engineers that can replace every department of the car making? Easy said than done.

Nobody has crystal ball to know what happens in future, but given the current rate of progress at Red Bull, it's a safe bet to take up any offer that comes from Red Bull for George, rather than hope that Max and his coterie would bring some magic potion and revive the luck of Mercedes.

Horner and max recently complained about the engine

https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1b ... %20engines.

Speaking on Red Bull Powertrain's progress with its power unit, he added:

“Even though we are still a long way from competitive use, everything is going according to plan and the performance curve is right.”

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/265568/v ... ngine.html

For now, Verstappen is not worried about the project surrounding Red Bull Powertrains: "If I have to speculate about everything... I could also worry about whether I'm still alive tomorrow, right? So I'm not too worried about that."

He continued: "Of course I am also in close contact with Christian [Horner] and the people working there about that. Everyone is working very hard, so there is no need to panic about that. It's still not 2026. We know it's a big task, we don't take that lightly. With so many established engine manufacturers, we also don't think it will be easy to beat them. But there are a lot of good people working on the project and we are very excited about it. So time will tell where we will be."

[chrisc90]

I was going to say, they were having a moan about how the engine was overall in terms of the FIA's design, rather than complaining about their own engine unit

[AR3-GP]

What position could Mercedes offer Wache that doesn't make James Allison redundant?

[K1Plus]

What position could Mercedes offer Wache that doesn't make James Allison redundant?

He could at Mercedes take the position that Newey right now has at RB. The CTO position. Chief technical officer is responsible for the whole man management within the technical team and technical team long term goals and operations and who works in what department and is above the technical director, who oversees car development and the departments.

[Dunlay]

I was going to say, they were having a moan about how the engine was overall in terms of the FIA's design, rather than complaining about their own engine unit

You are right. That's what the concern was from Max and Horner.

[Just_a_fan]

What position could Mercedes offer Wache that doesn't make James Allison redundant?

Maybe James is happy to retire...

[AR3-GP]

What position could Mercedes offer Wache that doesn't make James Allison redundant?

Maybe James is happy to retire...

He just signed a new long term contract for technical director.