2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[ringo]

Marko is hype man. In this case being like Toto and making doom and gloom to portray vulnerabilities and a false sense of hope for the others.
RB20 will be sorted out soon. After the race 7 upgrade talk this team sure has gone quiet on upgrades.
What's in the pipeline?
Also Checo is not rubbish, his tyre prep on the outlap is his biggest weakness. He can fix it if he works on it some more. He just never seems to start a flying lap with the tyres in the right window front and rear.

[organic]

RB20 will be sorted out soon. After the race 7 upgrade talk this team sure has gone quiet on upgrades.
What's in the pipeline?

Some new parts for Barcelona but not a large package. I think like other teams they will try to filter bits through when and if they are ready. A small amount of performance can make a big difference to results now that the grid has compressed.

RB are apparently content with the car in its current form and it will perform well in the European leg. But a larger package may come in a few races

[Silent Storm]

Top tier edit…

[Sergej]

DrObbs said on Monday that Barcelona update won't be large, and the major upgrade is pushed to Silverstone.

[venkyhere]

Also, unless I’m misunderstanding your point, this telemetry seems to say the exact opposite of what you’re saying.
In the hairpin, ver makes up time on the brakes by braking later, hence his speed trace shows he is travelling faster all the way to his slightly later apex.
From that point onwards there is no point where his speed > rus, obviously therefore there is no point at which he’s gaining time.

The above telemetry analysis is way off... This telemetry just reads as Verstappen maximizing time on entry and Russell maximizing his exit (which pays laptime all the way down the straight, not just at exit). Russell's small drag advantage is negligible here.
https://i.imgur.com/Z65eAHA.png

Again, there’s no point in the trace, after both cars have reached their apex, where ves is travelling faster then rus. You seem to be making the point that ves is sacrificing entry to gain exit, but he loses time all the way down the straight on both traces you’ve posted. Clearly rus has the better corner exit and ves is making up time on the brakes, in this specific section.

Perhaps I am not articulating my claim correctly. At the risk of sounding like a broken record (sorry to those who find this particular discussion boringly going on endlessly), here goes :

What looks in the telemetry plot like VER 'gaining in entry' and 'losing in exit' compared to RUS, is only half the story. Hence I posted the video screenshots. If VER hadn't executed the rotation of his car as effectively as he did ; despite a much tighter and faster line approaching the apex of the corner (as shown in video screenshots) with late braking (as revealed by the telemetry plot) - the perfect recipe to understeer and lose tremendously in the exit, his speed loss in the exit is not large (as should have been the case with the way he approached the entry). Usually, if a driver gains so much in the entry by late braking, he is losing minimal speed, he is supposed to understeer, and lose a lot in the exit. This is what I meant by him maximizing his exit for such an aggressive entry to the corner. This is why i used the term "early" in quotes in the text comment box in one of the earlier telemetry plot pics. The guy who is supposed to understeer with this kind of late braking entry is VER, but what we see is that RUS is the guy who understeers in the video screenshots. Yes, RUS is carrying more speed in the exit, but the speed advantage at exit is not near what he is "supposed to" have. The wider line inorder to not sacrifice minimal speed, is not giving the large chunk of speed advantage at exit, as it's supposed to.

If you look at the same telemetry plot to which @organic replied above, there is a zone after the marker line where both RUS and VER speed traces coincide, after which obviously RUS goes faster due to his drag advantage. This 'coinciding is the T11 kink followed by the long straight. Why does this happen ? My take is that this is because VER has exited the T10 with a much straighter car, even if he is exiting with slightly lower speed. This can be seen in both the telemetry plots (Q3 first runs & pole lap tie) I posted related to this discussion. The telemetry doesn't show the orientation of the car, the video screenshots do.

The flaw in my earlier posts was the way I worded it - 'VER sacrificing entry and gaining in exit' , instead of 'gaining in entry and not sacrificing much in the exit' even though that's what I had in mind (I watched the video before looking up the traces). For the way VER entered the corner, he has no business exiting it so well with a much straighter car, with a speed not significantly lesser than the guy who entered the corner wide and carried more minimal speed - this is the skill I was referring to, rotating it so well.

Just to check my theory, I took screenshots of PER v VER Q1 comparison video from yelistner in youtube : PER is following the exact lines and exact technique what RUS did. In the end, what yelistner says matches what I have been trying to say :






Hope I am not sounding as crazy as I did in previous posts, when I was poor with my usage of racing terminology semantics.

@venkeyhere
Mercedes hasn't been the best car all year or since 2022. Russell got the most he possibly could out of his car. Gassing up Verstappen over Russell in this instance just isn't fair. You were also gassing up Hamilton over Russell in this thread too

Sorry buddy, you misunderstood me. I am not interested in driver vs driver fights like what typically happens in many threads, I am just making 'observation' the way my mind sees it. I might be right, I might very well be wrong, but I am not the guy whose ego gets boosted by "gassing up" one driver and "pulling down" another.

[Wouter]

DrObbs said on Monday that Barcelona update won't be large, and the major upgrade is pushed to Silverstone.

.
That is not what he said!
.

-I’m hearing conflicting information about the RB20 update in Barcelona.
May not be the big update it was planned. The bigger package could be pushed to Silverstone now.
-this kerb issue will be here for the rest of the year. They’ll need to learn to minimize it on certain tracks.

[Sergej]

ah sorry ! may not rather than will not, big difference !

[Wouter]

ah sorry ! may not rather than will not, big difference !

.
No problem.

[Wil992]

Perhaps I am not articulating my claim correctly. At the risk of sounding like a broken record (sorry to those who find this particular discussion boringly going on endlessly), here goes :

Yet again, despite the many many words, what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense to me.
Ver gains time on the brakes and apexes later than rus, he then proceeds to lose all of that time he gained by being slower down the entire straight that follows, and that this ability to lose more time down the straights than he gained on the brakes is a mark of his quality, because a lesser driver would have lost even more time?
He exits the corner slower than rus, at no point on the straight that follows is he faster than rus.
I’m genuinely not trying to be argumentative, but you’ve posted screengrabs, telemetry, all sorts of description, and I still don’t understand your fundamental point?
It sounds to me like you’re saying “he rotates the car quickly, which makes him slower overall, but because it’s not as slow as it could have been, this shows how great he is”. I’m paraphrasing obviously.
Maybe no-one else was taking this line because, as per this telemetry, it’s slower?

[venkyhere]

I’m genuinely not trying to be argumentative, but you’ve posted screengrabs, telemetry, all sorts of description, and I still don’t understand your fundamental point?
It sounds to me like you’re saying “he rotates the car quickly, which makes him slower overall, but because it’s not as slow as it could have been, this shows how great he is”. I’m paraphrasing obviously.
Maybe no-one else was taking this line because, as per this telemetry, it’s slower?

He could have lost even more time down the straights to RUS, if he drove the draggier RB20 like how PER did through T10 (by matching the RUS line). Braking late and still rotating quicker, and straightening earlier helped buy time in T10, because the higher drag meant he was going to bleed time in the straight anyway.
We saw this in the race even, for both safety car restarts, T10 was one of the corners that helped him build the gap, because he was losing time massively through the kerbs 8-9 and 13-14.
(it was the same 'ability to rotate' on a RB19-not-so-good-with-rotation-like-a-SF23-or-AMR23 that gained him 0.2s in the final sector in monaco 2023 quali).

This whole thing started off as I was watching highlights of the canada race and the U-turn camera angle showed all the cars passing through T10 just after the 2nd second safety car restart. I got excited with the unique position of VER's car at the exit, compared to others, and decided to share the screenshot here. Then the discussion snowballed. I will stop here since I am not making sense to any of you.

[Sieper]

It’s an incredibly good analysis. The reason we are here for. You are in fact making a lot of sense, well detailed. All we could ask for really.

[AR3-GP]

It looks like Red Bull is seeking clarification on what they will be allowed to do regarding flexible front wings. There is a lot of development potential in this area if given the green light. Red Bull's wings don't move very much compared to that of other teams.

https://formu1a.uno/it/red-bull-ha-mess ... -mercedes/

[Paa]

It looks like Red Bull is seeking clarification on what they will be allowed to do regarding flexible front wings. There is a lot of development potential in this area if given the green light. Red Bull's wings don't move very much compared to that of other teams.

https://formu1a.uno/it/red-bull-ha-mess ... -mercedes/

It is possible that they are more interested in restricting other teams than opening new potential for themselves.
Of course it could be both.

[AR3-GP]

It looks like Red Bull is seeking clarification on what they will be allowed to do regarding flexible front wings. There is a lot of development potential in this area if given the green light. Red Bull's wings don't move very much compared to that of other teams.

https://formu1a.uno/it/red-bull-ha-mess ... -mercedes/

It is possible that they are more interested in restricting other teams than opening new potential for themselves.
Of course it could be both.

I think there are positives no matter the outcome. Either the others are reigned in or Red Bull have a new area to exploit. They would not be complaining if their wings were doing the same thing.

[Sieper]

Well, multiple teams have come much closer very quickly, that is usually impossible if not for bendy aero. AMR was the last one before the current surge.