Wil992 wrote: ↑11 Jun 2024, 17:08
Also, unless I’m misunderstanding your point, this telemetry seems to say the exact opposite of what you’re saying.
In the hairpin, ver makes up time on the brakes by braking later, hence his speed trace shows he is travelling faster all the way to his slightly later apex.
From that point onwards there is no point where his speed > rus, obviously therefore there is no point at which he’s gaining time.
organic wrote: ↑11 Jun 2024, 18:02
The above telemetry analysis is way off... This telemetry just reads as Verstappen maximizing time on entry and Russell maximizing his exit (which pays laptime all the way down the straight, not just at exit). Russell's small drag advantage is negligible here.
https://i.imgur.com/Z65eAHA.png
Wil992 wrote: ↑11 Jun 2024, 21:55
Again, there’s no point in the trace, after both cars have reached their apex, where ves is travelling faster then rus. You seem to be making the point that ves is sacrificing entry to gain exit, but he loses time all the way down the straight on both traces you’ve posted. Clearly rus has the better corner exit and ves is making up time on the brakes, in this specific section.
Perhaps I am not articulating my claim correctly. At the risk of sounding like a broken record (sorry to those who find this particular discussion boringly going on endlessly), here goes :
What looks in the telemetry plot like VER 'gaining in entry' and 'losing in exit' compared to RUS, is only half the story. Hence I posted the video screenshots. If VER hadn't executed the rotation of his car as effectively as he did ; despite a much tighter and faster line approaching the apex of the corner (as shown in video screenshots) with late braking (as revealed by the telemetry plot) - the perfect recipe to understeer and lose tremendously in the exit, his speed loss in the exit is not large (as should have been the case with the way he approached the entry). Usually, if a driver gains so much in the entry by late braking, he is losing minimal speed, he is supposed to understeer, and lose a lot in the exit. This is what I meant by him maximizing his exit for such an aggressive entry to the corner. This is why i used the term "early" in quotes in the text comment box in one of the earlier telemetry plot pics. The guy who is supposed to understeer with this kind of late braking entry is VER, but what we see is that RUS is the guy who understeers in the video screenshots. Yes, RUS is carrying more speed in the exit, but the speed advantage at exit is not near what he is "supposed to" have. The wider line inorder to not sacrifice minimal speed, is not giving the large chunk of speed advantage at exit, as it's supposed to.
If you look at the same telemetry plot to which @organic replied above, there is a zone after the marker line where both RUS and VER speed traces coincide, after which obviously RUS goes faster due to his drag advantage. This 'coinciding is the T11 kink followed by the long straight. Why does this happen ? My take is that this is because VER has exited the T10 with a much straighter car, even if he is exiting with slightly lower speed. This can be seen in both the telemetry plots (Q3 first runs & pole lap tie) I posted related to this discussion. The telemetry doesn't show the orientation of the car, the video screenshots do.
The flaw in my earlier posts was the way I worded it - 'VER sacrificing entry and gaining in exit' , instead of 'gaining in entry and not sacrificing much in the exit' even though that's what I had in mind (I watched the video before looking up the traces). For the way VER entered the corner, he has no business exiting it so well with a much straighter car, with a speed not significantly lesser than the guy who entered the corner wide and carried more minimal speed - this is the skill I was referring to, rotating it so well.
Just to check my theory, I took screenshots of PER v VER Q1 comparison video from yelistner in youtube : PER is following the exact lines and exact technique what RUS did. In the end, what yelistner says matches what I have been trying to say :
Hope I am not sounding as crazy as I did in previous posts, when I was poor with my usage of racing terminology semantics.
TeamKoolGreen wrote: ↑11 Jun 2024, 21:35
@venkeyhere
Mercedes hasn't been the best car all year or since 2022. Russell got the most he possibly could out of his car. Gassing up Verstappen over Russell in this instance just isn't fair. You were also gassing up Hamilton over Russell in this thread too
Sorry buddy, you misunderstood me. I am not interested in driver vs driver fights like what typically happens in many threads, I am just making 'observation' the way my mind sees it. I might be right, I might very well be wrong, but I am not the guy whose ego gets boosted by "gassing up" one driver and "pulling down" another.