2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[CMSMJ1]

The forum members were told by the moderators that you had to report a message before the whole discussion got out of hand.

I reported the first message yesterday at 21:00, because I could guess where it would go.

It is now 24 hours later and nothing has been done with the report and the whole discussion has gotten out of hand.

What is the point of reporting then?!

I've reported similar in Mercedes threads and nothing has been done.

But when I publicly complained about moderating standards, I was accused of trying to to tell the mods how to mod. And I received board warnings which led to a ban. If you haven't had the same, you should be grateful.

As per my post with Wouter

[CMSMJ1]

Pages filled about speculation on Jos and Max are unbearable to read. The fun to follow this thread (about Red Bull from a mainly technical perspective) is diminished greatly this way. Is the moderator on a holiday? I am sure several post are way below the standard this forum should have.

I think I will be away for a few weeks and come back when we start racing again.

Team threads are exempt from the usual forum standard that it is predominantly technical content

I've been a member on here longer than many. Since when do you think there was an exemption for team threads?

Asking as a member, not moderator

[Vanja #66]

Wheatley leaving for a TP position is quite a natural step for someone looking to make it, as it was reported of him a while ago. Audi is a reasonable decision for him and he's a fantastic catch for them.

Top brass are changing teams a lot lately and there is absolutely nothing different with Red Bull. Newey and Wheatley leaving must have made quite a massive opening in the 2025 budget, just like it does for othee teams.

In the last 18-20 months Ferrari "lost" Binotto, Sanchez, Mekies and Cardille of the "big" names and all of them got a promotion or a pay raise in another team, compared to that Red Bull is having a great time keeping top brass around!

Twisting the narrative into blaming Horner for this "implosion"... Not even gonna comment

[organic]

Pages filled about speculation on Jos and Max are unbearable to read. The fun to follow this thread (about Red Bull from a mainly technical perspective) is diminished greatly this way. Is the moderator on a holiday? I am sure several post are way below the standard this forum should have.

I think I will be away for a few weeks and come back when we start racing again.

Team threads are exempt from the usual forum standard that it is predominantly technical content

I've been a member on here longer than many. Since when do you think there was an exemption for team threads?

Asking as a member, not moderator

Pretty sure that's been the line I've heard from other mods about team threads the rb team thread is often full of info about what the drivers are doing in their time off in non-race weekends, promo events etc which is often reported and never removed.

I've previously used the logic of a "it's a technical forum therefore x or y shouldn't be allowed even in team/race threads" and was shot down

[Just_a_fan]

Wheatley leaving for a TP position is quite a natural step for someone looking to make it, as it was reported of him a while ago. Audi is a reasonable decision for him and he's a fantastic catch for them.

Top brass are changing teams a lot lately and there is absolutely nothing different with Red Bull. Newey and Wheatley leaving must have made quite a massive opening in the 2025 budget, just like it does for othee teams.

In the last 18-20 months Ferrari "lost" Binotto, Sanchez, Mekies and Cardille of the "big" names and all of them got a promotion or a pay raise in another team, compared to that Red Bull is having a great time keeping top brass around!

Twisting the narrative into blaming Horner for this "implosion"... Not even gonna comment

Wheatley will make a good TP, I'm sure. He's one of the brains behind Red Bull's success and I think the team will miss him.

[CMSMJ1]

Team threads are exempt from the usual forum standard that it is predominantly technical content

I've been a member on here longer than many. Since when do you think there was an exemption for team threads?

Asking as a member, not moderator

Pretty sure that's been the line I've heard from other mods about team threads the rb team thread is often full of info about what the drivers are doing in their time off in non-race weekends, promo events etc which is often reported and never removed.

I've previously used the logic of a "it's a technical forum therefore x or y shouldn't be allowed even in team/race threads" and was shot down

My personal view is that if you want that kind of mundane stuff then go get it somewhere else.

It's a waste of bandwidth and propagates nonsense.

[Vanja #66]

Wheatley will make a good TP, I'm sure. He's one of the brains behind Red Bull's success and I think the team will miss him.

Agreed, but that wasn't the point of my post

[Henk_v]

The success story of RB will have obviously resulted in new legends born. Neither Newey nor Wheatley are silver bullits, but are the catchy names heading a pool of talent. Can't wait to see who will step out of their shadow.

As for Newey, I think it is safe to say he never was less involved in a champonship car. He is a part-time external consultant, mainly involved in the RB17. He may be the media face, but no way he is dictating the current course or the course of last year.

As the rules mature, everything becomes closer. The True merit of RB is it's ability to consistently be a top 3 team

Other teams are still peaky. They take home the tally.

[RacePaceDemon]

Wheatley leaving for a TP position is quite a natural step for someone looking to make it, as it was reported of him a while ago. Audi is a reasonable decision for him and he's a fantastic catch for them.

Top brass are changing teams a lot lately and there is absolutely nothing different with Red Bull. Newey and Wheatley leaving must have made quite a massive opening in the 2025 budget, just like it does for othee teams.

In the last 18-20 months Ferrari "lost" Binotto, Sanchez, Mekies and Cardille of the "big" names and all of them got a promotion or a pay raise in another team, compared to that Red Bull is having a great time keeping top brass around!

Twisting the narrative into blaming Horner for this "implosion"... Not even gonna comment

Wheatley will make a good TP, I'm sure. He's one of the brains behind Red Bull's success and I think the team will miss him.

He certainly knows how to get "the referee on side".

[taperoo2k]

I'm not going to address the specific points in your post (f1isgood, MySee).

I will simply say that history teaches us many lessons. Nothing we are seeing is new. Red Bull was a dominant F1 team just as Williams, Ferrari, Mclaren, and Mercedes were before them. Then the cracks appeared, and it all fell apart. Those teams suffered for many years. Red Bull is not immune. It serves no purpose to ignore the past. All of the teams are the same. When the cracks start to appear, they all come crashing down the same way.

For now, Red Bull still have lots of money (unlike the others apart from Ferrari and Mercedes who didn't have problems on that front). Obviously McLaren bought out Mercedes which was expensive and lost the backing of Mercedes, while Williams lost the backing of BMW.

If Ford RBPT is a disaster, presumably there will be a way to pivot to Honda power units?

Depends on what's in Aston Martin's contract with Honda. Is it an exclusive deal or not?

I think it is unlikely RBR-Ford RBPT will fall out of the Top 5 WCC in the short to medium terms (3-4 seasons) like Williams-Cosworth & Williams-Toyota did (eventually becoming backmarkers as Williams-Renault 5-6 seasons later), but it depends if Ford RBPT is a complete disaster or not, of course.

That depends if they are on the right path or not. And how much money Redbull are willing to pour into the RBPT.
Never forget that F1 is a marketing exercise for RedBull.

If Ford RBPT units are over 100hp down (and the Audi units aren't that bad, of course Audi could be just as bad or worse), then certainly RBR and VCARB will be nailed to the last two rows. But (hopefully) the Ford RBPT units will be more competitive than that.

It depends on getting all the ducks in a row, having top notch QA processes, software optimisations etc. Worst case it'll be like Honda's inital PU with McLaren "GP2 engine" as Alonso put it.

What has happened in the past when Newey leaves a team is a decline, either a slow one or a fast one. It took McLaren a better part of a decade to get where they are now. Williams have been in the doldrums for a long time, with a win here and there.

Attributing Newey to the decline of McLaren after 2013 is really a stretch IMO! Newey left in 2006 and McLaren remained a leading team until 2012.

Ron Dennis was ready to get rid of Newey just for changing the colour of his office. McLaren coasted along until 2012, when it fell behind the likes of Redbull and Mercedes in the running of a modern F1 team. It's taken McLaren over a decade to recover.

While Williams declined faster, it was accompanied by Renault power units being replaced by privateer Mecachrome & Supertec power units whcih didn't receive the same rate of development. With Willis designed cars and BMW engines, Williams were reasonably comeptitive. Williams only started to struggle technically in 2005, two years after the departure of Willis (but again there is the factor of BMW using detuned 2004 power units that season for various reasons, instead of a 2005 development).

The decline of Williams started with losing Newey, losing the Renault engines and a lot of other poor choices. I went round the Williams factory about a decade ago. It looked dated compared to the McLaren Technology centre. A relative used to work there, even raced Sir Frank in wheelchairs (always a racer).

Back to Redbull, I think they will turn things around. It just make take some time and Horner taking a step back from the racing part of Redbull.

[AR3-GP]

The success story of RB will have obviously resulted in new legends born. Neither Newey nor Wheatley are silver bullits, but are the catchy names heading a pool of talent. Can't wait to see who will step out of their shadow.

I agree, it will be interesting. A lot of people that Red bull are losing currently were "18 year" staff. Red Bull could not survive off of these people forever. They would either retire or seek new projects at other teams or outside of F1.

Right now, Red Bull needs to be thinking about who among the new recruits and promotions will become the new "18 year staff" that the team will be remembered for in 10-15 years time.

[Sieper]

Wheatley leaving for a TP position is quite a natural step for someone looking to make it, as it was reported of him a while ago. Audi is a reasonable decision for him and he's a fantastic catch for them.

Top brass are changing teams a lot lately and there is absolutely nothing different with Red Bull. Newey and Wheatley leaving must have made quite a massive opening in the 2025 budget, just like it does for othee teams.

In the last 18-20 months Ferrari "lost" Binotto, Sanchez, Mekies and Cardille of the "big" names and all of them got a promotion or a pay raise in another team, compared to that Red Bull is having a great time keeping top brass around!

Twisting the narrative into blaming Horner for this "implosion"... Not even gonna comment

Wheatley will make a good TP, I'm sure. He's one of the brains behind Red Bull's success and I think the team will miss him.

He certainly knows how to get "the referee on side".

The referee was on the side of racing, like all teams asked him to be.

[Wouter]

Wheatley will make a good TP, I'm sure. He's one of the brains behind Red Bull's success and I think the team will miss him.

.
He certainly knows how to get "the referee on side".

.
The referee was on the side of racing, like all teams asked him to be.

.
Exactly!!

[Farnborough]

The success story of RB will have obviously resulted in new legends born. Neither Newey nor Wheatley are silver bullits, but are the catchy names heading a pool of talent. Can't wait to see who will step out of their shadow.

I agree, it will be interesting. A lot of people that Red bull are losing currently were "18 year" staff. Red Bull could not survive off of these people forever. They would either retire or seek new projects at other teams or outside of F1.

Right now, Red Bull needs to be thinking about who among the new recruits and promotions will become the new "18 year staff" that the team will be remembered for in 10-15 years time.

Completely agree, any company serious about their performance will have in place variously;- succession planning for staff position, training targeted at bringing newer staff to fruition, "shadowing" of key personnel, general staff development, program of integrated staff performance assessment in their development, external targets if appropriate etc, etc.

A successful company doesn't get to and hold their performance without lucid overview of this sector in employment.

The key names we see here, and generally discussed through forum, did come to those positions from somewhere, longer development usually, until we then have a public name that is seen out in press or other assessment of their performance.

General commentary has absolutely no idea of who works in the background, with superficial judgment offered here and other places virtually worthless.

As with every team in F1 though, we're going to find out as the year turns on into next season etc. That's for the whole F1 field. The ultimate performance of the team is of course very public and liable to huge shift in positive or negative direction. This is one of the fascinating aspect of the sport though

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Wheatley leaving for a TP position is quite a natural step for someone looking to make it, as it was reported of him a while ago. Audi is a reasonable decision for him and he's a fantastic catch for them.

Top brass are changing teams a lot lately and there is absolutely nothing different with Red Bull. Newey and Wheatley leaving must have made quite a massive opening in the 2025 budget, just like it does for othee teams.

In the last 18-20 months Ferrari "lost" Binotto, Sanchez, Mekies and Cardille of the "big" names and all of them got a promotion or a pay raise in another team, compared to that Red Bull is having a great time keeping top brass around!

Twisting the narrative into blaming Horner for this "implosion"... Not even gonna comment

Yes, it is natural for Wheatley to go for TP, but I can't stop thinking of what Jos said that the team is falling apart because of Horner. After that, Newey leaves, the team's domination ends, and Wheatley leaves. Too many coincidences.