2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[dren]

They have a solution, it's to fix the car not being quick.

[Vanja #66]

If you assume he would be able to hold a 21.7s pace (the first lap out of the last stint), then I guess the PU would have cost him around 0.8s since his pace soon-after stabilized around 22.5s

It's the only obvious spike in laptime and it sticks out compared to the others who pretty much held the same pace they had from the first lap out on new tires, so I guess it's also fair to assume he was only limited by the PU (at least substantially so) on the last stint.

I've just had a look at f1-tempo, it's nothing dramatic actually, I had a hard time distinguishing between regular and extra clipping in that period. It's just that Ferrari and McLaren had an edge on Top Speed and I thought that problem must have been bigger than they said, but it's not that

[Emag]

If you assume he would be able to hold a 21.7s pace (the first lap out of the last stint), then I guess the PU would have cost him around 0.8s since his pace soon-after stabilized around 22.5s

It's the only obvious spike in laptime and it sticks out compared to the others who pretty much held the same pace they had from the first lap out on new tires, so I guess it's also fair to assume he was only limited by the PU (at least substantially so) on the last stint.

I've just had a look at f1-tempo, it's nothing dramatic actually, I had a hard time distinguishing between regular and extra clipping in that period. It's just that Ferrari and McLaren had an edge on Top Speed and I thought that problem must have been bigger than they said, but it's not that

Yeah but it’s not so surprising given their wing choice. I was really surprised how poor their race pace was though, I did not expect that.

[arjen.teravest]

They just setup the car to a previous raced setup, and then have to leave it there. I'm sure they get data from sensors that they keep, but in terms of actually learning something new, changing the tyres to new ones really won't give them much at all because they have nothing to compare it to.

After the Italian GP, tyre tests will take place in Monza, which may help us get back on track.

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... iegen.html


They don't care about the tires. They care about aero balance and stability. They could have chosen a previous setup. There are sensors on the car. They could have run a previously raced setup for comparison to sim and wind tunnel. It's naive to think the F1 teams don't learn anything. Even just having Lawson's feedback, compared to that of Verstappen and Perez is useful.

I didn't say they didn't learn anything, but they won't have learned much from running the same setup, they will already have 300km of data there.

Having a complete unknown in the tyres also makes it very hard to infer anything.

That is true. However weather/wind conditions might have been different as compared to the weekend, hence this data is useful as well.

[KimiRai]

"Fundamental problem" doesn't suggest quick solution.

The 2025 car would in theory have been in conception for quite a while by now, multiple months or at least thats usually the case. They should have time left if it is something that has to wait until next year because it is "fundamental", but I hope they won't lose too much progress.

[Sergej]

so basically Baku and Singapore are written off, and then from Austin with the "corrected" car it'll be all or nothing.

[AR3-GP]

so basically Baku and Singapore are written off, and then from Austin with the "corrected" car it'll be all or nothing.

I think they can be closer in Baku because the wings will be more even across the grid. However, if they are off the pace in Baku, then they should take another ICE (5 place penalty).

In Singapore, it is only about qualifying. If they can get into the top 3 in qualifying, it will be enough.

[AR3-GP]

[Sergej]

so basically Baku and Singapore are written off, and then from Austin with the "corrected" car it'll be all or nothing.

In Singapore, it is only about qualifying. If they can get into the top 3 in qualifying, it will be enough.

top 3 in Singapore quali ? don't delude yourself, Max won't be any higher than 5 in Singapore, maybe even behind Mercedes

[AR3-GP]

so basically Baku and Singapore are written off, and then from Austin with the "corrected" car it'll be all or nothing.

In Singapore, it is only about qualifying. If they can get into the top 3 in qualifying, it will be enough.

top 3 in Singapore quali ? don't delude yourself, Max won't be any higher than 5 in Singapore, maybe even behind Mercedes

I'm imagining a red flag influenced session. We're long overdue.

[AR3-GP]

Are there two separate budget caps for engine manufacturers for the current engines and the 2026 engines? I question how much time Honda will be willing to spend resolving the current issues when their priority will be the 2026 power units with a completely different team. If they have 1 budget to sort everything, they will have to make sacrifices.

[Sergej]

IIRC research and development about PU are excluded from budget cap of engine manufacturers , aren't they ?

[GhostF1]

Are there two separate budget caps for engine manufacturers for the current engines and the 2026 engines? I question how much time Honda will be willing to spend resolving the current issues when their priority will be the 2026 power units with a completely different team. If they have 1 budget to sort everything, they will have to make sacrifices.

Makes it sound like there is a fundamental issue with the Honda PU they need to fix. What are you referring to? I heard Max say they had an issue so ran with reduced power for a large portion of the race at Monza. But it wasn't made public what the issue was. The fact he went back up in engine mode suggests it was possibly a sensor issue?

[AR3-GP]

Are there two separate budget caps for engine manufacturers for the current engines and the 2026 engines? I question how much time Honda will be willing to spend resolving the current issues when their priority will be the 2026 power units with a completely different team. If they have 1 budget to sort everything, they will have to make sacrifices.

Makes it sound like there is a fundamental issue with the Honda PU they need to fix. What are you referring to? I heard Max say they had an issue so ran with reduced power for a large portion of the race at Monza. But it wasn't made public what the issue was. The fact he went back up in engine mode suggests it was possibly a sensor issue?

I don’t know what the problem is, but there are problems. Verstappen had to take a 5th power unit. Then they couldn’t run full power in Monza. Things are not going smoothly with the power units compared to other manufacturers so there is room for improvement.

[dialtone]

If you assume he would be able to hold a 21.7s pace (the first lap out of the last stint), then I guess the PU would have cost him around 0.8s since his pace soon-after stabilized around 22.5s

It's the only obvious spike in laptime and it sticks out compared to the others who pretty much held the same pace they had from the first lap out on new tires, so I guess it's also fair to assume he was only limited by the PU (at least substantially so) on the last stint.

Piastri on his charge back to Leclerc was doing 22+s? Piastri and Norris managed only two laps under 22s. There is no way that Verstappen would be able to hold a 21.7s pace. That lap was him going for a fastest lap on fresh rubber. I don't think he was undercutting anyone at that moment.

There are 3 laps after that 21.7 where he was running 23s and after that he holds 22.5s. That is only visible time where he was running very different to other laps. Maybe those three laps were lower PU performance or it was during the whole race.

Well, Max pit a bit later compared to Oscar, and he pit for mediums, not hards. A 21.8s pace is not so farfetched, but I guess if you want to dial it down a bit, let's assume he would be able to hold a 22.0s with mediums and slightly fresher rubber. Then a more realistic estimation is around 0.5s, which is still quite significant I would say.

Nah, you have to look at before/after to know what the impact was. What I heard was at most 0.4s.

You certainly can’t make pace assumptions as that is your anchoring event. Furthermore the issue for RBR wasn’t so much as engine but really the tires didn’t last, so judging by what pace was available would discount a fairly big hole.