2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Ben1980]

This is cope. The WDC was on but Norris/McLaren botched at LEAST five wins. McLaren have had the fastest car over the season.

I think after Miami they had the consistently best car but not always the fastest. And I'm not sure they lost 5 wins, or it's not a clear cut 5 wins anyway.

Barcelona, Austria, Silverstone, Hungary and Monza were clear cut bottled wins. Arguably Spa too.

It's when you say Austria, I know you aren't serious. That was a RBR track, Max was pole on sprint, won the sprint, pole in the race, and was pretty comfy until an error which brought Norris into it. Hungary they won? I'm unsure how Monza was bottled. Silverstone was a mess up, but no guarantee of a win though.

[Alex_Z]

I think after Miami they had the consistently best car but not always the fastest. And I'm not sure they lost 5 wins, or it's not a clear cut 5 wins anyway.

Barcelona, Austria, Silverstone, Hungary and Monza were clear cut bottled wins. Arguably Spa too.

I am sure Lando could have won Bahrain too, if he tried a little harder.

Which wins are you disputing Norris/McLaren didn't bottle?
Barcelona: He wins if he leads after first corner.
Austria: Destroys his race by being over zealous against a dirty wheel to wheel racer after been gifted a lifeline with a botched RBR stop.
Silvertstone: Comes in a lap too late AND gets the tyre call wrong. Shares fault with his team.
Hungary: He wins if he leads after first corner, or if he let Oscar past much earlier to have a go at him with plenty of laps to go.
Monza: McLaren's fault.
Spa: First corner error which potentially cost him the win considering where Piastri ended up finishing.

[Ben1980]

The old fine line of car updates.

Wonder if that has just thrown the balance out or if just a case of not enough time to find it with the updates and the sprint weekend. The first time in a while the McLarens had balance issues.

Could it be the front wing? Piastri did a purple lap just before Max took it at the end. Norris said his front tyres were dead.

The upgrade looked "formidable" because it was a long list in the update sheet. In reality, it's just a bunch of detailing around the suspension fairings. Slightly different front wing flap configuration and some presumed changes on rear brake duct exits.

I wouldn't even call it an upgrade.

There was a just a though iirc only Lando had the updated wing, Oscar was missing it but had the rest of the updates and didn’t seem to have cooked his tyres - maybe he just managed them better during the race.


On another note don’t think it looks like there is too much to worry about with the incident with Charles at the end a little aggressive think he just defended what he knew was coming and caught Charles by surprise

Don't think Oscar was in the same type of battles. Or pace, while he was in traffic.

[Darth-Piekus]

What?
In that case he hasn’t done much no.

That is a fact that most of the point difference came when Red Bull had the clear upper hand till Miami and even after the Miami upgrade Red Bull was still a little better as a car for a few more races.

[Sieper]

What?
In that case he hasn’t done much no.

That is a fact that most of the point difference came when Red Bull had the clear upper hand till Miami and even after the Miami upgrade Red Bull was still a little better as a car for a few more races.

You said Max hadn’t been on the podium for 10 races.

Man, he finished 2nd just last race.

[SilviuAgo]

Some quick data before Qualifying:
Interesting the difference in top speed between Oscar and Lando (also Lando had DRS to Max):



The sprint quali gap to VER maintained around +0.25/+0.3 also in the race for Lando. Ferrari had a better race pace than quali pace and huge drop for Mercedes. For them the race pace was horrific:

[SilviuAgo]

The old fine line of car updates.

Wonder if that has just thrown the balance out or if just a case of not enough time to find it with the updates and the sprint weekend. The first time in a while the McLarens had balance issues.

Could it be the front wing? Piastri did a purple lap just before Max took it at the end. Norris said his front tyres were dead.

The upgrade looked "formidable" because it was a long list in the update sheet. In reality, it's just a bunch of detailing around the suspension fairings. Slightly different front wing flap configuration and some presumed changes on rear brake duct exits.

I wouldn't even call it an upgrade.

There was a just a though iirc only Lando had the updated wing, Oscar was missing it but had the rest of the updates and didn’t seem to have cooked his tyres - maybe he just managed them better during the race.


On another note don’t think it looks like there is too much to worry about with the incident with Charles at the end a little aggressive think he just defended what he knew was coming and caught Charles by surprise

No further action for Lando Norris on the defence at turn 15.

He keeps P3.

[SilviuAgo]

We shall see in 3 hours if the team manages to find a more ideal set up cause I notice that Mclaren doesn't find the ideal set up immediately. Unless though we are very weak at Austin.

🗣 Andrea Stella after the sprint race:

"We have learnt and gathered good data which we can use to change the set up."

[Darth-Piekus]

You said Max hadn’t been on the podium for 10 races.

Man, he finished 2nd just last race.

Potato, potato. Allow me to reiterate. In 7 races he had only 2 podiums. What I am trying to say is let's not underestimate or overhype a driver. It's easy to make assumptions for the talent of each driver but let's be honest. Lando Norris never had a car as dominant at the Red Bull of 2022 and 2023 even this year and at the same time a 2nd driver was sabotaged to clear 2nd. Once Mclaren becomes a dominant car with Oscar being sabotaged to be clear 2nd and Norris doesn't dominate then we can safely talk if he's good or not.

[Sieper]

You said Max hadn’t been on the podium for 10 races.

Man, he finished 2nd just last race.

Potato, potato. Allow me to reiterate. In 7 races he had only 2 podiums. What I am trying to say is let's not underestimate or overhype a driver. It's easy to make assumptions for the talent of each driver but let's be honest. Lando Norris never had a car as dominant at the Red Bull of 2022 and 2023 even this year and at the same time a 2nd driver that is clear 2nd. Once Mclaren becomes a dominant car with Oscar being clear 2nd and Norris doesn't dominate then we can safely talk if he's good or not.

Potato potato. You are just blatantly disregarding Max’ talent. Something I would never do for Norris. Look up my previous comments on him over the last few years.

[Farnborough]

The only reason they would have had to change all rear wings would be because all of them, including high DF packages, were flexing the same way as low DF wings, just probably to a lesser extent. People are just clinging into things that have no impact on the issues today.

It may have had no issue, but if the cars are designed for certain rear wings and these are changed, even a bit, will surely have an impact somewhere.

Would love to know how changing a rear wing so that it is aerodynamically and physically the same, with the only exception being that it no longer flexes at high-speed to open a gap that increased straight line speed slightly with DRS closed, can make a car stiff, increase tire wear and (probably) mess up tire temps.

Likey to maintain top speed with flap closed (important here for defence of position) the rear would now encompass less load/drag if that is primary setup target.

That reduction has to be matched by front flap reduction too, else it becomes too nervous in oversteer risk.

Ultimately proves the gain available from rear, when flex was observed, was real inspite of team protestations they all say that when forced to make a change though.

Here it seemed to push them into "at the limit" uncertainty for the driver in dragging one lap,pace from it.

It'll be interesting to see if they fundamentally alter that balance now, trading peak speed, to approach qualli with more emphasis on total load. Perhaps with a different aim in tire life for race stints. Maybe that tradeoff will bring more ease to that end of stint tire life.

[Darth-Piekus]

Potato potato. You are just blatantly disregarding Max’ talent. Something I would never do for Norris. Look up my previous comments on him over the last few years.

Max does have talent but let's be honest. I grew up with Senna, Schumacher, Alonso and Hamilton and he's nowhere near them at their best. He needed the fastest car to win a championship unlike the first three and probably every driver today needs the best car to win. Do you disagree that he built a difference when he had the best car at the first part of the championship? Have you seen Mclaren this year being dominant for a long period of time like 2022 or 2023?

[Emag]

It may have had no issue, but if the cars are designed for certain rear wings and these are changed, even a bit, will surely have an impact somewhere.

Would love to know how changing a rear wing so that it is aerodynamically and physically the same, with the only exception being that it no longer flexes at high-speed to open a gap that increased straight line speed slightly with DRS closed, can make a car stiff, increase tire wear and (probably) mess up tire temps.

Likey to maintain top speed with flap closed (important here for defence of position) the rear would now encompass less load/drag if that is primary setup target.

That reduction has to be matched by front flap reduction too, else it becomes too nervous in oversteer risk.

Ultimately proves the gain available from rear, when flex was observed, was real inspite of team protestations they all say that when forced to make a change though.

Here it seemed to push them into "at the limit" uncertainty for the driver in dragging one lap,pace from it.

It'll be interesting to see if they fundamentally alter that balance now, trading peak speed, to approach qualli with more emphasis on total load. Perhaps with a different aim in tire life for race stints. Maybe that tradeoff will bring more ease to that end of stint tire life.

So in order to get the benefit of 2-3 kmh they decide to mess up the entire car balance? And it's not like they don't have the data of how the car performs at different DF levels, the gimmicky rear wing was introduced at Spa and all subsequent new rear wings were variations of that concept for different DF levels.

You're saying that even though they have run most of the season without that rear wing, now that they were forced to revert they don't know how to setup the car?

Interesting theory, but I don't think it holds up.

As for setup changes going forward, they will probably be mostly mechanical. I would start by going for a softer ride instead of this stiff jumpy boat of a platform they went for.

[Watto]

The upgrade looked "formidable" because it was a long list in the update sheet. In reality, it's just a bunch of detailing around the suspension fairings. Slightly different front wing flap configuration and some presumed changes on rear brake duct exits.

I wouldn't even call it an upgrade.

There was a just a though iirc only Lando had the updated wing, Oscar was missing it but had the rest of the updates and didn’t seem to have cooked his tyres - maybe he just managed them better during the race.


On another note don’t think it looks like there is too much to worry about with the incident with Charles at the end a little aggressive think he just defended what he knew was coming and caught Charles by surprise

No further action for Lando Norris on the defence at turn 15.

He keeps P3.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GaRuDpXWcAA ... =4096x4096

Right and obvious call.


Live it looked a little bad but the replays didn't think there was a thing to worry about. Slightly aggressive but I think had he not run the defensive line and Charles made it through it would have been people saying Lando was caught napping . Sensible decision

[venkyhere]

Potato potato. You are just blatantly disregarding Max’ talent. Something I would never do for Norris. Look up my previous comments on him over the last few years.

Max does have talent but let's be honest. I grew up with Senna, Schumacher, Alonso and Hamilton and he's nowhere near them at their best. He needed the fastest car to win a championship unlike the first three and probably every driver today needs the best car to win. Do you disagree that he built a difference when he had the best car at the first part of the championship? Have you seen Mclaren this year being dominant for a long period of time like 2022 or 2023?

Fine, you are the authority on judging driver talent.
(I guess you haven't watched brazil 2016).