2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Ben1980]

https://i.imgur.com/Y3TI9Yt.png

Really weird first stint. Both McLaren's so slow but here it's Lando vs Leclerc vs Max.

Leclerc and Max both display a normal progression of pace. They start at a certain level, Leclerc a bit faster because he wants to break DRS. Then they both stabilize to a certain level of pace and from there their laptimes get progressively slower the deeper into the stint they go right until they pit.

Lando on the other hand, starts out with horrible performance, getting faster and faster as the stint progresses, until he too (not shown in this graph because it happened a couple of laps later), starts showing signs of tire wear and gets slower before he pits.

Other than those first 15 laps, Lando was on par or faster than Leclerc, discounting the laps stuck behind Max. Hard to gauge the second stint, because of the 5 lap tire delta, but I imagine without that it would have been on par with Leclerc.

Very bizarre car behavior. Perhaps some weird problem with taking too long to get the tires at the right operating window. Maybe an over-correction via the setup in a bid to try and improve the tire wear problems they saw in the sprint.

If it wasn't for that huge slump at the start, Lando would have overcut Max with pace alone, so it's frustrating that they couldn't get the car into the right window. The sprint format really screwed them because they did not hit the ground running from the get-go like RedBull and Ferrari did.

In the first stint, Piastri said on the radio that his graining cleared up around the time the car started lapping at the same pace as the leaders. It does seem like a problem getting into the window.

It's common for McLaren to be much harder on it's tyres relative to it's opposition before picking up pace with the fuel load going down while others are losing pace. There's a number of factors in play here and it can be hard to unpick which are most powerful. I think the Pirelli tyre choice favoured Ferrari for starters, they handled the mediums better but I do think because of the slow start they had to the weekend McLaren underestimated the progress the Saturday setup changes had made. By lap 20 Lando's times were coming down and Max was going the other way, the Ferraris - forget it!

By stint two both McLarens were coming alive. It escaped most people's attention that despite his unhappiness with the setup all weekend Oscar was matching Lando's times, that is catching Max but probably decided to keep a watching brief given all things. The team did a good recovery job from Friday where it looked like we would be poor in qualifying and race pace, certainly vulnerable to the Mercs - imagine P6/7! So I'm pretty impervious to all the whining and huffing and puffing about McLaren dropping the ball, if this was a bad weekend I'll take it. I think Mexico is another chance for podiums even if Ferrari seems to have settled the ship. We need to keep focussed on the WCC, Ferrari will be the big threat there.

On the mention of Oscar, after the pit stops he was 6 or so seconds behind Lando, who was 6 or so behind Max. When Lando was first on the back of Max, Oscar was 8 seconds behind him. He only closed in when they started to squabble .

I may be missing something, but I thought he was underwhelming. If he had been closer he could have challenged Max, and maybe even slowed him down more.

[JPower]

Imo opinion watching it I knew Lando was gunna get a penalty because of how the stewarts ruled earlier incidents.
After been pushed wide Lando should of let Max pass out ahead of that corner and by the rules Max would of got the Penalty.

Think Alonso would of backed off so Max got the penalty, but Lando doesnt have that cunning yet of a Alonso or Max.

off topic, Piastri stocks have fallen imo. Lando is just faster in everyway.

1) Max, Lando, Lecerc
2) Hamilton, Alonso, Russel.
3) Sainz, Piastri, Hulk.

Piastri isnt in the top 6 of best drivers of this moment, just lacks about 2 tenths.

Piastri has a ton of room to grow. I see no reason why his "stocks have fallen". He's no worse than Lando, Leclerc, or Russell in their second years.

Current Alonso is not Tier 2 IMO. I'd argue that Russell and Hamilton's inconsistency this year might put them out of Tier 2 as well. Some of that is the car but they haven't been their best. Lando and Leclerc are however.

[deargodhelpme]

They lost out massively in the first 15 laps of the first stint, way more than usual, because they are usually slow on the first couple of laps even on races where they have been great. But it has never taken that many laps to get the car in the optimal operating window and also the deficit on the building up phase has never been as big as it was in Austin (~1 second per lap).

It reminded me of the wet races like Silverstone and Montreal where they were waiting for the rain to either start or stop before showing their pace. Once Lando fell back to P4 I think they were pacing themselves waiting for the cars ahead to pit before using their tyres so they could get the delta to attack Max at the end. They seem to pretty much always do this whether it's their preferred race management or because they have to because of a characteristic of the car on heavy fuel (Oscar did say he had graining that eventually cleared up), I don't always find it easy to tell.

And this is something that I have noticed specifically with Lando going back all the way to 2020 where he saves tyres and then attacks near the end when others are struggling with their tyres more, usually with a lot of success. But if it's intentional I'm not sure it has really paid off for them this year as there have been several "close but no cigar" situations at the end of the race.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

I don't really have the energy to bother with Max or his trolls anymore and I am glad you mentioned it to the mods. However I am not sure what triggered you here. Was it that I called his racecraft crap? If the word crap offended you then I apologise and allow me to rephrase. Max Verstappen's racecraft is that of a bully. A bully that likes to divebomb others off the track either he is on the attack or defence because he doesn't know of any other way of racing. I simply don't like these kind of drivers. It's a personal preference. Now let's not bring that up again please.

Well-described divebombs. Here is an onboard video of those:

[FittingMechanics]

Imo opinion watching it I knew Lando was gunna get a penalty because of how the stewarts ruled earlier incidents.
After been pushed wide Lando should of let Max pass out ahead of that corner and by the rules Max would of got the Penalty.

But you are wrong. Defending driver needs to be ahead at apex and then he is able to force the other driver off. It is quite likely Max would not have got a penalty.

In fact I am 100% certain he would not get a penalty if he was ahead at apex, forced Norris off but remained on track himself. This is what is the problem in my opinion. This should not be legal. If someone is alongside you it should not be that you can legally forced them off because you are defender ahead at apex. It almost outlaws overtakes on the outside.

In this specific situation there is a chance VER would get a penalty because he didn't manage to stay on track himself so stewards can claim he was not in control of his car. Still, I don't think they would have given him a penalty as it is easier to stay silent. They would justify that both went off thus no one was forced.


What is the downside if the defender is required to leave a space when someone is alongside? I don't see any, we could get more overtakes (this is a positive as they made DRS specifically to help with it, also new aero regulations with ground effect were introduced to improve racing and amount of overtakes), we could get more side by side action in the corners (again a benefit). Only downside that could be theoretically considered is that it may make defending much harder. Not sure I agree with that, if defending becomes hard then you can easily just remove DRS and we have clean racing with hard overtakes in the corners.

[CjC]

I don't really have the energy to bother with Max or his trolls anymore and I am glad you mentioned it to the mods. However I am not sure what triggered you here. Was it that I called his racecraft crap? If the word crap offended you then I apologise and allow me to rephrase. Max Verstappen's racecraft is that of a bully. A bully that likes to divebomb others off the track either he is on the attack or defence because he doesn't know of any other way of racing. I simply don't like these kind of drivers. It's a personal preference. Now let's not bring that up again please.

Well-described divebombs. Here is an onboard video of those:

Yea a very valid video, not the best from Lando. Ive noticed how we haven’t seen anything like that since from Lando.
He’s learnt from Austria and moved on/ improved.
(This isn’t aimed at you) Folk forget that this is Landos first race winning season, he’s learning on the job, simple as.
I feel sorry for Lando sometimes, he gets the mick taken out of him for driving a ‘tractor’ at McLaren, he gets the mick taken out of him for not winning a race, now it seems he’s getting the mick taken out of him/ criticised for not leading the WDC.
Good job the salary is decent

[mwillems]

Imo opinion watching it I knew Lando was gunna get a penalty because of how the stewarts ruled earlier incidents.
After been pushed wide Lando should of let Max pass out ahead of that corner and by the rules Max would of got the Penalty.

But you are wrong. Defending driver needs to be ahead at apex and then he is able to force the other driver off. It is quite likely Max would not have got a penalty.

In fact I am 100% certain he would not get a penalty if he was ahead at apex, forced Norris off but remained on track himself. This is what is the problem in my opinion. This should not be legal. If someone is alongside you it should not be that you can legally forced them off because you are defender ahead at apex. It almost outlaws overtakes on the outside.

In this specific situation there is a chance VER would get a penalty because he didn't manage to stay on track himself so stewards can claim he was not in control of his car. Still, I don't think they would have given him a penalty as it is easier to stay silent. They would justify that both went off thus no one was forced.


What is the downside if the defender is required to leave a space when someone is alongside? I don't see any, we could get more overtakes (this is a positive as they made DRS specifically to help with it, also new aero regulations with ground effect were introduced to improve racing and amount of overtakes), we could get more side by side action in the corners (again a benefit). Only downside that could be theoretically considered is that it may make defending much harder. Not sure I agree with that, if defending becomes hard then you can easily just remove DRS and we have clean racing with hard overtakes in the corners.

I guess there is the question of who is defending. Lando was actually ahead before the braking zone, if not by much. When is an overtake complete and was Max defending or actually attacking by going late on the brakes?

The rules around the apex are cut and dry and from that perspective, if Lando is the attacker then it has been applied correctly. But I am curious as to what "completes" an overtake, having a complete car length ahead before a braking zone itself does seem like it should be sufficient. I think that if there is a rule clarification, this is perhaps where it could be in part.

Interestingly, I remember asking this question before, of what completes an overtake... time to do some forum searching, when and why has this come up previously...?

[mwillems]

Ahhh I found them. It was Singapore in 23. Hamilton had overtaken Lando, exited a corner and then used a runoff at the next corner after.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

I don't really have the energy to bother with Max or his trolls anymore and I am glad you mentioned it to the mods. However I am not sure what triggered you here. Was it that I called his racecraft crap? If the word crap offended you then I apologise and allow me to rephrase. Max Verstappen's racecraft is that of a bully. A bully that likes to divebomb others off the track either he is on the attack or defence because he doesn't know of any other way of racing. I simply don't like these kind of drivers. It's a personal preference. Now let's not bring that up again please.

Well-described divebombs. Here is an onboard video of those:

Yea a very valid video, not the best from Lando. Ive noticed how we haven’t seen anything like that since from Lando.
He’s learnt from Austria and moved on/ improved.
(This isn’t aimed at you) Folk forget that this is Landos first race winning season, he’s learning on the job, simple as.
I feel sorry for Lando sometimes, he gets the mick taken out of him for driving a ‘tractor’ at McLaren, he gets the mick taken out of him for not winning a race, now it seems he’s getting the mick taken out of him/ criticised for not leading the WDC.
Good job the salary is decent

These dive bombs are best from Lando. If you don't try, you're hardly going to succeed. Dive bombs are wrongly stigmatized; they are hard racing and should be part of the game when fighting for a championship. That is one reason why 2021 was the best season of all time.

[Darth-Piekus]

In that case both Lando and especially Max have to learn from Oscar Piastri how to dive bomb without sending the other off the track.

[FittingMechanics]

I guess there is the question of who is defending. Lando was actually ahead before the braking zone, if not by much. When is an overtake complete and was Max defending or actually attacking by going late on the brakes?

The rules around the apex are cut and dry and from that perspective, if Lando is the attacker then it has been applied correctly. But I am curious as to what "completes" an overtake, having a complete car length ahead before a braking zone itself does seem like it should be sufficient. I think that if there is a rule clarification, this is perhaps where it could be in part.

Interestingly, I remember asking this question before, of what completes an overtake... time to do some forum searching, when and why has this come up previously...?

To me the overtake is not complete unless the attacking car is fully ahead (no overlap and probably out of the corner). Or to make it simpler, if the driver started the straight ahead (especially fully ahead) of the other driver, he is the defending driver until the other overtakes fully without overlap. Just because Ricciardo licks the stamp and sends it doesn't make him a defender at the moment he gets ahead of the defender. To me this seems like common sense.

But to make things simpler, they should remove the whole who is a defender thing. It should be a simple rule - you have to leave a space if there is an overlap. Regardless if you are defender or the attacker. I could accept need for some kind of "overlap percentage" but to me this seems like it will just make things that much messier, drivers will probably claim they were over/under the percentage and then the stewards will have to go and measure this. Just a mess. With "always leave a space when overlap" it is simple and the driver who is being forced wide can always just hold his line and the crash will be the fault of the other driver. It doesn't make sense to have different rules depending on who is the defender. Attacker has to leave the space, defender doesn't, it's just complicated.

Go with the simple solution (always leave a space), it will lead to better racing, more overtakes and action which is all positive.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

In that case both Lando and especially Max have to learn from Oscar Piastri how to dive bomb without sending the other off the track.

Of course, but Verstappen also made many overtakes at the beginning of his career in the midst of the Mercedes domination and took many victories. At the same time, Piastri could learn consistency from Verstappen how to be on top race after race, and it's silly to compare Verstappen to Piastri who hasn't battle championship.

[Big Gun]

Imo opinion watching it I knew Lando was gunna get a penalty because of how the stewarts ruled earlier incidents.
After been pushed wide Lando should of let Max pass out ahead of that corner and by the rules Max would of got the Penalty.

Think Alonso would of backed off so Max got the penalty, but Lando doesnt have that cunning yet of a Alonso or Max.

off topic, Piastri stocks have fallen imo. Lando is just faster in everyway.

1) Max, Lando, Lecerc
2) Hamilton, Alonso, Russel.
3) Sainz, Piastri, Hulk.

Piastri isnt in the top 6 of best drivers of this moment, just lacks about 2 tenths.

Piastri has a ton of room to grow. I see no reason why his "stocks have fallen". He's no worse than Lando, Leclerc, or Russell in their second years.

Current Alonso is not Tier 2 IMO. I'd argue that Russell and Hamilton's inconsistency this year might put them out of Tier 2 as well. Some of that is the car but they haven't been their best. Lando and Leclerc are however.

Im talking pure pace. IMO Alonso is way more consistent than Hamilton and Russell, also imo Alonso would be a lot closer to Max in the championship than Lando, plus in this last race Alonso's racecraft is second to none and im sure he would of found a way past Max, or would of gotten Max a penalty.

I should clarify, that my ranking was more on Qualy Pace as for overall I have Max,Lando,Lecerc, Hamilton and Alonso still in tier 1.

Tier 1 drivers would beat any other driver in equal machinery thats not also in Tier 1 over a season. thats how I rate my Tier 1 guys.
Piastri just doesnt have the X factor, he is always behind Lando.

[Darth-Piekus]

I would say to leave Oscar alone. He is in just his second year and he will learn.

[Big Gun]

I would say to leave Oscar alone. He is in just his second year and he will learn.

Brundle has always said that after 3 years, that thats basically the drivers level.
So next year he gunna need to find 2 tenths to push Norris