2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[TimW]

I also agree with 9 btw, because of qualy.

What happened in quali to deserve a nine?

I'm not sure as I only watched the broadcast and they only showed him for some odd seconds. From what I've seen from the minimap, he was busy trying to overtake people on track on his outlap, and then started his first flying lap basically fighting with other drivers in close proximity. He should have just chilled on his outlap, leave some distance and put in a timed lap. It was not even Q3. All he had to do is to post a decent lap to go through.

Point is, he was released from the pit ~4-5 minutes before the end and had 1 full timed lap before the yellows/reds. So he should bear at least some responsibility not setting a competitive time for the first round. It is simply a mistake to leave it for the last minute under such circumstances. (yes, it is mostly on the team to release him into traffic or at the wrong time, but they win and lose together or something).

It is also pit box position. If you are at the end your options are compromised. Others can respond to you so you queue up behind them. So either you go extremely early and your tires cool down while waiting for the light to go green, or you go late but get stuck in traffic and risk yellows/reds etc. It is not as simple as it seems.

[F1NAC]

What happened in quali to deserve a nine?

I'm not sure as I only watched the broadcast and they only showed him for some odd seconds. From what I've seen from the minimap, he was busy trying to overtake people on track on his outlap, and then started his first flying lap basically fighting with other drivers in close proximity. He should have just chilled on his outlap, leave some distance and put in a timed lap. It was not even Q3. All he had to do is to post a decent lap to go through.

Point is, he was released from the pit ~4-5 minutes before the end and had 1 full timed lap before the yellows/reds. So he should bear at least some responsibility not setting a competitive time for the first round. It is simply a mistake to leave it for the last minute under such circumstances. (yes, it is mostly on the team to release him into traffic or at the wrong time, but they win and lose together or something).

It is also pit box position. If you are at the end your options are compromised. Others can respond to you so you queue up behind them. So either you go extremely early and your tires cool down while waiting for the light to go green, or you go late but get stuck in traffic and risk yellows/reds etc. It is not as simple as it seems.

With Checo’s help, they won’t be at the end anymore

[PapayaFan481]

What happened in quali to deserve a nine?

He was too slow and so did not make it through. Whenever the red flag was thrown, Max was never making it through as he was already in the drop zone and there was not enough time left to have been able to do an out lap before the end of the session.

From what somebody said back on page 454, Ocon overtook Max just before he was going to start his push lap. He then aborted that lap and then the red flag came out on his next attempt. Seems Max never got to set a flying lap in Q2.

From what was said on the broadcast, backed up by Checo not being happy with the run program, they went round for an extra warm up lap, which was why Ocon was able to pass Max.

Either way, why risk it? They left themselves vulnerable and it bit them.

On the other hand, it is entirely possible that Quaky got Max fired up and that is what motivated him to put on such a display in the actual race!!

[Paa]

It is also pit box position. If you are at the end your options are compromised. Others can respond to you so you queue up behind them. So either you go extremely early and your tires cool down while waiting for the light to go green, or you go late but get stuck in traffic and risk yellows/reds etc. It is not as simple as it seems.

Yes, I've been frustrated about this for years. It makes no sense to "reward" the first team with the last pit position.
It is a punishment.

[maxxer]

It is also pit box position. If you are at the end your options are compromised. Others can respond to you so you queue up behind them. So either you go extremely early and your tires cool down while waiting for the light to go green, or you go late but get stuck in traffic and risk yellows/reds etc. It is not as simple as it seems.

Yes, I've been frustrated about this for years. It makes no sense to "reward" the first team with the last pit position.
It is a punishment.

Easy rule change for a minimum speed limit in the fast laneand not this silly bunching up others.
Ofcourse have to give them time to get up to speed but now with the tracking on cars

[rbirules]

I don't remember? What was the mistake in sprint?
I also agree with 9 btw, because of qualy.

I assume the sprint mistake was the VSC delta time breach, or whatever they call it, that lead to a five second penalty.

Ah, that.
I always looked to that as calculated risk, rather than a mistake.
It fell on the wrong side this time.

Yeah, I'm kind of a mix between the two. He tried to time it perfectly and messed up the execution ("mistake" on his part), but it was a risk he knew he was taking. It's different than making a mistake that takes you off track, for example.

[rbirules]

He was too slow and so did not make it through. Whenever the red flag was thrown, Max was never making it through as he was already in the drop zone and there was not enough time left to have been able to do an out lap before the end of the session.

From what somebody said back on page 454, Ocon overtook Max just before he was going to start his push lap. He then aborted that lap and then the red flag came out on his next attempt. Seems Max never got to set a flying lap in Q2.

From what was said on the broadcast, backed up by Checo not being happy with the run program, they went round for an extra warm up lap, which was why Ocon was able to pass Max.

Either way, why risk it? They left themselves vulnerable and it bit them.

On the other hand, it is entirely possible that Quaky got Max fired up and that is what motivated him to put on such a display in the actual race!!

I agree it seems a risk not worth taking, but there's not a whole lot Max can do about that.

I don't usually speculate on driver's motivations or intentions. I would think trying to salvage, and then cement, his position in the WDC would be motivation enough, but who knows for sure?

[venkyhere]

either lawson is a junior drive or not. then if he is then his place is at vcarb he can't just be parachuted into the redbull seat. i sense fear astonishing level of hypocrisy.people were saying last year that yuki should vacate his seat and give it to lawson because he is no good,now Lawson has a seat but they dont want him anywhere near yuki.do think he can survive max.

Ignore him. He says Tsunoda plateaud where as in truth Liam was over aggressive against Yuki and didn't allow his teammate to take him out. Liam isn't afraid to take out Yuki so Yuki must be smart and make Liam take himself out. Liam has had plenty of time to study Yuki and he has driven the RB20 so he has no excuses to be slow against Yuki.

He is a junior driver. A guy with practically no experience, who matched up to Tsunoda in 2023. That means the rookie has far more 'raw talent' than Tsunoda.
Tsunoda has 'matured' temperamentally in 2024 (the best season he has had, according to me) and has been consistent.
If the rookie and the experienced driver are given a 6 race shootout match for the 2nd Redbull seat (as announced by Marko), in a car with a terribly narrow operating window, there is 50% chance experience finishes ahead of raw talent and 50% chance vice versa.
My take is, in case experience finishes ahead and Tsunoda is given the Redbull seat, and 5-6 races into 2025, Lawson is suddenly driving superlatively well, in an inferior car, what would they do about it ? Allow them to continue as it is ?
Because, according to my gut feel, some 10-12 races are what someone like Lawson will need to dominate Tsunoda, especially because this is a ground effect car, where the probability of "setting it up optimally" is low - and driver experience matters big big time, in setting up the car.

I want Lawson in the 2nd Redbull seat. He is a proper talent, much unlike Tsunoda who is average, at best. But Helmut Marko is giving him a shootout match to prove himself. The whole Ricciardo comeback into VCARB has royally screwed the young guy's career prospects.

yuki and lawson have been teammates in multiple racing categories ,so what you are saying is just nonsense.they is a vast body of evidence to compare the two

There is no experience like the experience from racing at highest level.

Anyway,

hoping to keep this sub-thread active until end of season with a scoreboard, starting from Texas GP :
Lawson +2 (started 19th and finished 9th)
Tsunoda 0 (started 10th and finished 14th)

5 more to go.

Lawson
COTA : +2
Mexico: 0
Brazil: +2

Tsunoda
COTA : 0
Mexico: DNF (no fault of his)
Brazil: +6

3 more to go.

[JordanMugen]

Lawson
COTA : +2
Mexico: 0
Brazil: +2

Tsunoda
COTA : 0
Mexico: DNF (no fault of his)
Brazil: +6

3 more to go.

Isn't this a pointless tally if it is going to be Colapinto due to Horner showing the Marko/Austrian faction who is the real boss?

FWIW I think either Lawson or Tsunoda would be good choices -- and Hadjar should have a debut -- but it's up to Horner to undermine Marko's Red Bull junior program if he so wishes.

[ispano6]

Yuki qualifying P3 was pretty big. That impressed a few people.

[Bill]

calapinto is still green and his pace is nowhere near Albon level. His crash cost yuki who was on the verge of leading a race and looking like a hero ,it also cost Charles Norris and Russell.redbull will lose mexican sponsors so iam curious to see if Perez will keep his jop.he still bring money so Perez is still likely to keep his jop.perez is a tool redbull use to keep themself in the media and gain publicity .we should have learnt something after summer break drama.

[Sergej]

[Bill]

Yuki qualifying P3 was pretty big. That impressed a few people.

yuki has wrong passport if they is such thing.he led a race last year in Abu dhabi on merit after outqualifying many drivers on the top teams ,so the point is yuki has done many impressive things he shouldn't be in the position to prove himself. With Alonso having many health issues and stroll looking lost maybe he will follow Honda to Aston.

[avantman]

To all those questioning why Max was so slow compared with Ocon when it rained the hardest before the red flag, or why Ocon in particular was so fast, Gasly to lesser extent. Yes, let's start with saying Ocon is actually a very good wet weather driver. But more importantly, If you actually look at two cars, red bull and alpine next to each other you’ll see Alpine most certainly carried more downforce and likely extreme wet setup and only because of that they had the advantage in the moments where it rained the hardest and the track was the wettest.
Judging by the size of RB19 rear wing(and front as well) it was also much smaller than also Mclaren, Ferrari and to lesser extent Mercedes(larger wing but seemingly shallower angled).
and after the penultimate SC, when it was still raining and track was super wet, only Max could stay near Ocon and started catching him back just before Sainz' crash. Norris was 11s back to that moment. Yeah, let's now talk about luck. What gap would it be at the end if not for another crash or clumsy Carlos. (who answered again to those questioning why didn't he get the top drive for next year.)
Besides, Alpine were really fast this weekend even in dry. In Sprint quali Max was just 0.012s faster than Gasly in SQ2 on medium. Gasly had a bad lap on soft in SQ3 and couldn't improve his SQ2 time, Max was just 0.4s faster.

[Juzh]

He was too slow and so did not make it through. Whenever the red flag was thrown, Max was never making it through as he was already in the drop zone and there was not enough time left to have been able to do an out lap before the end of the session.

From what somebody said back on page 454, Ocon overtook Max just before he was going to start his push lap. He then aborted that lap and then the red flag came out on his next attempt. Seems Max never got to set a flying lap in Q2.

From what was said on the broadcast, backed up by Checo not being happy with the run program, they went round for an extra warm up lap, which was why Ocon was able to pass Max.

Either way, why risk it? They left themselves vulnerable and it bit them.

On the other hand, it is entirely possible that Quaky got Max fired up and that is what motivated him to put on such a display in the actual race!!

That's incorrect, as some have already pointed out (me included some pages back). Max came out of the pits in Q2 and did his normal prep lap, then when he was about to start the lap ocon overtook him up the hill and Max had to bail out. There wasn't much Max could have done in that scenario other than try to block ocon aggressively which was very risky given the circumstances with the rain and all that. Then he backed off and used the aborted lap for extra warmup. On the next lap stroll was already in the wall and that was the end of it. Not much else Max could have done in the whole situation, and certainly can't be the reason for 9 instead of 10.