2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Ben1980]

I like Lando, and I like that he has been nurtured through the team to where he is. If he wins a title through that route, it seems more special, than a signing coming through.

My favourite driver, is probably Kimi, and I see Lando as similar. Someone who can win and can win a title but not soneone I would expect to win, or even be surprised if he didn't.

The one driver, I think who should win a title, and would be a shame if he doesn't is Charles Leclerc. I think he can go toe to toe.

I really hope that the team is competitive straight away next year, as for all the ups and downs, the car at the start was ultimately the reason we couldn't get close enough for a real wdc challenge.

[taperoo2k]

Norris’s championship was pretty much lost after the first 5 races of the season! He lost around 30-40 points to Max there alone, even though Max had a DNF there…

The RB20 looked like it was even more of a rocketship than the RB19. Then the team and form imploded. If McLaren had the car to fight with Redbull at the start of the season? I think Oscar would have been in the mix for wins as much as Lando.

If McLaren had the form it has had after Miami (finishing close to Max or ahead of him) in these first 5 races he would have been much closer now and probably would have taken the championship to the final round!

That's why it's imperative they hit the ground running in 2025. You need to be at the front from the start, then you'd not be chasing either championship if you are winning consistently.

But in any case both Max and Red Bull have been the better combination throughout the year…experience of winning championships probably helps this too! Plus Norris isn’t still ready for a championship…maybe next year he’ll be a more rounded driver!

Without Max, I doubt Redbull would have scored as many points as they have. He's dragged performances out of a car that is a step backwards from the RB19. My only complaint against McLaren is in the indecision on the pit wall when it comes to making critical choices that can swing the result of a race. Hopefully the signing of somebody as experienced as Will Courtenay will help. But I don't think he starts until 2026 (usual gardening leave).

On the upside, as the regulations are staying stable McLaren should hit the ground running and it'll be the first car that Rob Marshall and others will have had a hand in designing. 2026 will be an interesting test for the McLaren technical structure, new chassis and engine regulations will be a tough challenge to get right.

[venkyhere]

I would like to give my honest opinion. Hear me out before passing judgement. I might play devil's advocate and some may be hurt if I say it but I have to say it. Do you know that the line between success and failure is very thin? People these last two days tend to ignore many factors that lead to that result and tend to overexaggerate the result. Sure I agree that Lando screwed yet another start and I agree that Max drove a masterful race but let's see.
1)He started 17th. 4 places were vacant as they started from the pitlane so 13th. Two cars were the B-Team who got orders to let him pass against the rules of the competition so 11th. After that he passed 4 cars and none of them even made an attempt to defend and I was dissapointed in Piastri not even trying to defend.
2)The first car that defended was Charles Leclerc and Max never managed to pass him. He was stuck for 26 laps.
3)The VSC ended the moment both George and Lando entered the entrance of the pit lane. Nobody could predict that and that damaged their safe pit stop window.
4)Then there was a normal SC that bunched up all the cars. Norris passed Rusell and he was at that point faster than Max and the two Alpines by 4 seconds per lap. Still the SC bunched up the field and it's safe to say that the first three had to enter or risk getting passed. In any case you would expect that Max and both Alpines would have been at the end of the pack until Colapinto somehow lost the car on Safety Car speeds. The Red Flag was a total lucky event noone could predict giving them a free pit stop.
5)Under normal circumstances Max would have been dead last without the Red Flag and then nothing suggests he would be able to pass everyone considering he couldn't pass Leclerc not to mention he would be stuck in the dirty air. I will agree that he would have been on the top 10 but not in the podium places.

Good job for his masterful race but let's not overexxagerate.

Didn't want to talk about a non Mclaren driver here, but there are some factual errors above -
To go from P17 to P6 and get to the tail of LeClerc, Max overtook 9 cars (there were just 2 vacant spots on the grid, not 4). Then he got lucky that he didn't have to overtake LeClerc, Tsunoda, Norris, Russel, because they all pitted. The only other overtake he did was Ocon after the second safety car. So overall 10 overtakes in total (2 did not start, 3 started behind ; to account for a total of 19 cars other than himself).

However, the matter of high praise for him is not really about the 'number of overtakes' anyway.

All the mainstream/social media hype about this 'verstappen masterclass' is 90% by people who don't understand racing , but from those 10% who actually understand, it is not about the P17 or the number of overtakes etc.. It's about the cleverness and skill involved in how different the lines he chose to drive were (for example the outside T3 passing of 3-4 cars in first lap was reminiscent of the same thing from brazil 2016 ; another example was how much kerb he was taking on T12 to straighten before applying full throttle for sector3) , about how he was braking into T1 and yet not locking up his fronts, and how smooth the inputs were for all the sector2 turns. The car wasn't eccentrically loaded at any point where he had to saw at the steering wheel to wrestle back the car (of course, don't know what he was doing with his feet because we can't see it on the onboard footage). As a result his tyres were in much better shape than anyone.
Yes he got lucky with red flag ; yes, many of the laptimes (until the 2nd safety car) were very similar to Russel/Norris. But it was the way in which those laptimes were achieved without punishing the car/tyres.
All the praise across the paddock from 'people in the know' is really about how differently he was driving to everyone else. It's not about the 'how much gap' or 'how many places' or any such measurable numbers.

Max was great, but Pierre Gasly got from 15th to 3rd in an Alpine! An Alpine! Phenomenal, probably drive of the day, due to the total comparative nature of what they were driving.

Of course, make no mistake, Gasly and Ocon drove superbly, no lockups, no mistakes, nothing. At excellent pace. But both of them didn't have to 'pass' people to get there (probably Gasly passed a few at the start). Passing cars in a chase, means going off the line and finding a way, in conditions with a single racing line. In the wet, peak performance of a car isn't called for, because there is no peak grip. So none of the cars were able to use full power (except may the final sector3 full throttle, but which again depended on the quality of exit from T12). That equalized the playing field and the Alpine's engine deficit didn't matter. So it was all about skill in the wet. I also thought Russel drove superbly, that Mercedes is a handful and keeping Lando behind in his far superior car, is testament to Russel's talent. There were so many great performances in the Brazilian GP, but Max's performance stood out for the ease with which he was passing cars and the ease with which he set the flurry of fastest laps.

[venkyhere]

There is a lot of outrage in social media about 'poor McLaren strategy' to call Lando into the pits, when the eventual three podium finishers decided to stay out. That is a nonsense argument. WJ tried his level best to plod Lando to stay out for as long as possible, it was Lando who had worn inters and finding the grip undrivable - he feared going off (which he did many times even with fresh inters, eventually). There was nothing wrong with pitwall strategy (they can't just ignore a driver's plea and force him to drive without grip) in this race. There have been strategy mistakes in the past, but that doesn't mean that aspect needs to be blamed for this race.

[Dafnalina]

[BMMR61]

So much performance was down to having the car in the window of tyre performance. As the rain intensity changed so did the relative competitiveness of the cars. It was a bit concerning that Lando's start looked down to McLaren's power mapping, he got a good reaction time and got off the line extremely well and then in the second phase went backwards. Who thinks this was down to the driver's right foot? I'm certain that if he had held Russell out into the first turn, Lando would have driven away from the field. I've been critical of Lando at times but I think he's faced too much from the media and fans for someone who doesn't handle the scrutiny well. He was well beaten this time by the best driver in the sport.

I know that radio messages don't get broadcast in real time but the constant bleating between Lando and Will I thought was another display of mental weakness. Metaphorically, he's like someone who chews his nails! Just drive the damn thing and hopefully the race engineer is on top of all the relevant information (though I sometimes doubt that). It sounded just a bit like Sochi revisited.

[BMMR61]

I've been outspokenly against team orders, or at least what I judge as premature application of. The "what if Lando loses by less than X points" arguments have abounded and I was prepared to stand by my belief that the WDC was too unlikely as to deny our drivers the opportunity to race. Naturally I would have to admit I got it wrong if the unlikely happened, now I ask those who called for Oscar to give it up for Lando if they are prepared to admit they got it wrong. Or maybe at Las Vegas where almost inevitably the WDC will be decided. Anyone ready to admit they were wrong?

Where are you Buxton?

[Ben1980]

I've been outspokenly against team orders, or at least what I judge as premature application of. The "what if Lando loses by less than X points" arguments have abounded and I was prepared to stand by my belief that the WDC was too unlikely as to deny our drivers the opportunity to race. Naturally I would have to admit I got it wrong if the unlikely happened, now I ask those who called for Oscar to give it up for Lando if they are prepared to admit they got it wrong. Or maybe at Las Vegas where almost inevitably the WDC will be decided. Anyone ready to admit they were wrong?

Where are you Buxton?

Can't really see how it could be wrong trying to make the most of the possibility to win a drivers championship.

I think even a 1% chance is worth trying for.

I dont think that they should have changed anything though before they did, I have no issues with him it was handled apart from Monza, which the team accept they didn't sort properly.

[proteus]

I've been outspokenly against team orders, or at least what I judge as premature application of. The "what if Lando loses by less than X points" arguments have abounded and I was prepared to stand by my belief that the WDC was too unlikely as to deny our drivers the opportunity to race. Naturally I would have to admit I got it wrong if the unlikely happened, now I ask those who called for Oscar to give it up for Lando if they are prepared to admit they got it wrong. Or maybe at Las Vegas where almost inevitably the WDC will be decided. Anyone ready to admit they were wrong?

Where are you Buxton?

Can't really see how it could be wrong trying to make the most of the possibility to win a drivers championship.

I think even a 1% chance is worth trying for.

I dont think that they should have changed anything though before they did, I have no issues with him it was handled apart from Monza, which the team accept they didn't sort properly.

They could try with everything and push Oscar down, potentionally damage their relations and maybe make him go elsewhere. Instead they decided to let them get their results and somewhat keep peace in the team and get themself two drivers which will cooperate in the future when needed.

[Ben1980]

I've been outspokenly against team orders, or at least what I judge as premature application of. The "what if Lando loses by less than X points" arguments have abounded and I was prepared to stand by my belief that the WDC was too unlikely as to deny our drivers the opportunity to race. Naturally I would have to admit I got it wrong if the unlikely happened, now I ask those who called for Oscar to give it up for Lando if they are prepared to admit they got it wrong. Or maybe at Las Vegas where almost inevitably the WDC will be decided. Anyone ready to admit they were wrong?

Where are you Buxton?

Can't really see how it could be wrong trying to make the most of the possibility to win a drivers championship.

I think even a 1% chance is worth trying for.

I dont think that they should have changed anything though before they did, I have no issues with him it was handled apart from Monza, which the team accept they didn't sort properly.

They could try with everything and push Oscar down, potentionally damage their relations and maybe make him go elsewhere. Instead they decided to let them get their results and somewhat keep peace in the team and get themself two drivers which will cooperate in the future when needed.

Think if anything it spoke that the team never really felt the WDC was on, but then did change just in case.

I have no issues with how they did it.

[FittingMechanics]

I've been outspokenly against team orders, or at least what I judge as premature application of. The "what if Lando loses by less than X points" arguments have abounded and I was prepared to stand by my belief that the WDC was too unlikely as to deny our drivers the opportunity to race. Naturally I would have to admit I got it wrong if the unlikely happened, now I ask those who called for Oscar to give it up for Lando if they are prepared to admit they got it wrong. Or maybe at Las Vegas where almost inevitably the WDC will be decided. Anyone ready to admit they were wrong?

Where are you Buxton?

I have few issues with this view.

First of all it is very defeatist, thinking that there is no chance that Norris can catch Verstappen when it looked like we had good pace and Verstappen did not. Once again major issue for McLaren was that other teams stepped up (Ferrari) and we lost a bunch of points that could have been ours (just like when Mercedes won their races).

There was a realistic chance Norris could have caught up and the team should have been ready and willing to capitalize on it. Just like they are willing to swap drivers around in races when someone has better tires, they should have been ready to do it when necessary.

I can accept (and agree) that taking away Hungary win would be quite devastating as it was to be first win for Piastri but I would say that the fact that Piastri jumped Norris at start and couldn't match his pace later in the race made that win feel quite undeserving. We all saw that Piastri can win a super race in Baku. That would have been much better first victory. To me, the whole "jump at the start" or race until we call it off seems unnecessary when it was clear that Norris should be prioritized. I think the team should have been clear that they will not race at the start for the victory. Allowing this just increases risk and would mean Norris will be more aggressive in next races that could mean a big points loss.

To me, the team showed real inability to think about WDC when they didn't swap in Monza. This was for P2 so it didn't really mean much to Oscar and they didn't do that easy swap.

I think that we need to be clear that to fight against Max Verstappen we need to be able to prioritize a single driver when it becomes clear. He is prioritized in Red Bull, not just because he is fast but because they want to maximize any points. Just like Ferrari swapped Barichello in that early Austria race, I am sure Red Bull would swap Perez if they ever felt someone was threatening them (hello 2025). It will be very hard to win against Verstappen because of that.

[FittingMechanics]

Overall inability to be decisive in prioritizing follows general trend of McLaren in being indecisive in strategy. This needs to improve in following years and we need to be ready to prioritize the leading driver when it becomes logical.

Maybe agree before the season that if someone has a chance of WDC at mid season point, that the driver is prioritized.

[AR3-GP]

There was a realistic chance Norris could have caught up and the team should have been ready and willing to capitalize on it. Just like they are willing to swap drivers around in races when someone has better tires, they should have been ready to do it when necessary.

I can accept (and agree) that taking away Hungary win would be quite devastating as it was to be first win for Piastri but I would say that the fact that Piastri jumped Norris at start and couldn't match his pace later in the race made that win feel quite undeserving. We all saw that Piastri can win a super race in Baku. That would have been much better first victory. To me, the whole "jump at the start" or race until we call it off seems unnecessary when it was clear that Norris should be prioritized. I think the team should have been clear that they will not race at the start for the victory. Allowing this just increases risk and would mean Norris will be more aggressive in next races that could mean a big points loss.

To me, the team showed real inability to think about WDC when they didn't swap in Monza. This was for P2 so it didn't really mean much to Oscar and they didn't do that easy swap.

I think that we need to be clear that to fight against Max Verstappen we need to be able to prioritize a single driver when it becomes clear. He is prioritized in Red Bull, not just because he is fast but because they want to maximize any points. Just like Ferrari swapped Barichello in that early Austria race, I am sure Red Bull would swap Perez if they ever felt someone was threatening them (hello 2025). It will be very hard to win against Verstappen because of that.

What if Norris just did the following?

0) Not fumbling lap 1 of China sprint
1) Not getting jumped at the start in Spain
2) Not fumbling lap 1 in Silverstone
3) Not leaving the door open in the Austria Sprint
4) Being more clever in Austria main
5) Not fumbling the first corner at Spa
6) Not getting jumped on lap 1 in Hungary
7) Not getting jumped on lap 1 in Monza
8 ) Not getting jumped on lap 1 in USA
9) Not getting jumped on lap 1 in Brazil