2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Dafnalina]

[BMMR61]

So much performance was down to having the car in the window of tyre performance. As the rain intensity changed so did the relative competitiveness of the cars. It was a bit concerning that Lando's start looked down to McLaren's power mapping, he got a good reaction time and got off the line extremely well and then in the second phase went backwards. Who thinks this was down to the driver's right foot? I'm certain that if he had held Russell out into the first turn, Lando would have driven away from the field. I've been critical of Lando at times but I think he's faced too much from the media and fans for someone who doesn't handle the scrutiny well. He was well beaten this time by the best driver in the sport.

I know that radio messages don't get broadcast in real time but the constant bleating between Lando and Will I thought was another display of mental weakness. Metaphorically, he's like someone who chews his nails! Just drive the damn thing and hopefully the race engineer is on top of all the relevant information (though I sometimes doubt that). It sounded just a bit like Sochi revisited.

[BMMR61]

I've been outspokenly against team orders, or at least what I judge as premature application of. The "what if Lando loses by less than X points" arguments have abounded and I was prepared to stand by my belief that the WDC was too unlikely as to deny our drivers the opportunity to race. Naturally I would have to admit I got it wrong if the unlikely happened, now I ask those who called for Oscar to give it up for Lando if they are prepared to admit they got it wrong. Or maybe at Las Vegas where almost inevitably the WDC will be decided. Anyone ready to admit they were wrong?

Where are you Buxton?

[Ben1980]

I've been outspokenly against team orders, or at least what I judge as premature application of. The "what if Lando loses by less than X points" arguments have abounded and I was prepared to stand by my belief that the WDC was too unlikely as to deny our drivers the opportunity to race. Naturally I would have to admit I got it wrong if the unlikely happened, now I ask those who called for Oscar to give it up for Lando if they are prepared to admit they got it wrong. Or maybe at Las Vegas where almost inevitably the WDC will be decided. Anyone ready to admit they were wrong?

Where are you Buxton?

Can't really see how it could be wrong trying to make the most of the possibility to win a drivers championship.

I think even a 1% chance is worth trying for.

I dont think that they should have changed anything though before they did, I have no issues with him it was handled apart from Monza, which the team accept they didn't sort properly.

[proteus]

I've been outspokenly against team orders, or at least what I judge as premature application of. The "what if Lando loses by less than X points" arguments have abounded and I was prepared to stand by my belief that the WDC was too unlikely as to deny our drivers the opportunity to race. Naturally I would have to admit I got it wrong if the unlikely happened, now I ask those who called for Oscar to give it up for Lando if they are prepared to admit they got it wrong. Or maybe at Las Vegas where almost inevitably the WDC will be decided. Anyone ready to admit they were wrong?

Where are you Buxton?

Can't really see how it could be wrong trying to make the most of the possibility to win a drivers championship.

I think even a 1% chance is worth trying for.

I dont think that they should have changed anything though before they did, I have no issues with him it was handled apart from Monza, which the team accept they didn't sort properly.

They could try with everything and push Oscar down, potentionally damage their relations and maybe make him go elsewhere. Instead they decided to let them get their results and somewhat keep peace in the team and get themself two drivers which will cooperate in the future when needed.

[Ben1980]

I've been outspokenly against team orders, or at least what I judge as premature application of. The "what if Lando loses by less than X points" arguments have abounded and I was prepared to stand by my belief that the WDC was too unlikely as to deny our drivers the opportunity to race. Naturally I would have to admit I got it wrong if the unlikely happened, now I ask those who called for Oscar to give it up for Lando if they are prepared to admit they got it wrong. Or maybe at Las Vegas where almost inevitably the WDC will be decided. Anyone ready to admit they were wrong?

Where are you Buxton?

Can't really see how it could be wrong trying to make the most of the possibility to win a drivers championship.

I think even a 1% chance is worth trying for.

I dont think that they should have changed anything though before they did, I have no issues with him it was handled apart from Monza, which the team accept they didn't sort properly.

They could try with everything and push Oscar down, potentionally damage their relations and maybe make him go elsewhere. Instead they decided to let them get their results and somewhat keep peace in the team and get themself two drivers which will cooperate in the future when needed.

Think if anything it spoke that the team never really felt the WDC was on, but then did change just in case.

I have no issues with how they did it.

[FittingMechanics]

I've been outspokenly against team orders, or at least what I judge as premature application of. The "what if Lando loses by less than X points" arguments have abounded and I was prepared to stand by my belief that the WDC was too unlikely as to deny our drivers the opportunity to race. Naturally I would have to admit I got it wrong if the unlikely happened, now I ask those who called for Oscar to give it up for Lando if they are prepared to admit they got it wrong. Or maybe at Las Vegas where almost inevitably the WDC will be decided. Anyone ready to admit they were wrong?

Where are you Buxton?

I have few issues with this view.

First of all it is very defeatist, thinking that there is no chance that Norris can catch Verstappen when it looked like we had good pace and Verstappen did not. Once again major issue for McLaren was that other teams stepped up (Ferrari) and we lost a bunch of points that could have been ours (just like when Mercedes won their races).

There was a realistic chance Norris could have caught up and the team should have been ready and willing to capitalize on it. Just like they are willing to swap drivers around in races when someone has better tires, they should have been ready to do it when necessary.

I can accept (and agree) that taking away Hungary win would be quite devastating as it was to be first win for Piastri but I would say that the fact that Piastri jumped Norris at start and couldn't match his pace later in the race made that win feel quite undeserving. We all saw that Piastri can win a super race in Baku. That would have been much better first victory. To me, the whole "jump at the start" or race until we call it off seems unnecessary when it was clear that Norris should be prioritized. I think the team should have been clear that they will not race at the start for the victory. Allowing this just increases risk and would mean Norris will be more aggressive in next races that could mean a big points loss.

To me, the team showed real inability to think about WDC when they didn't swap in Monza. This was for P2 so it didn't really mean much to Oscar and they didn't do that easy swap.

I think that we need to be clear that to fight against Max Verstappen we need to be able to prioritize a single driver when it becomes clear. He is prioritized in Red Bull, not just because he is fast but because they want to maximize any points. Just like Ferrari swapped Barichello in that early Austria race, I am sure Red Bull would swap Perez if they ever felt someone was threatening them (hello 2025). It will be very hard to win against Verstappen because of that.

[FittingMechanics]

Overall inability to be decisive in prioritizing follows general trend of McLaren in being indecisive in strategy. This needs to improve in following years and we need to be ready to prioritize the leading driver when it becomes logical.

Maybe agree before the season that if someone has a chance of WDC at mid season point, that the driver is prioritized.

[Watto]

Overall inability to be decisive in prioritizing follows general trend of McLaren in being indecisive in strategy. This needs to improve in following years and we need to be ready to prioritize the leading driver when it becomes logical.

Maybe agree before the season that if someone has a chance of WDC at mid season point, that the driver is prioritized.

Yeah I think if they prioritized Lando I think Lando would have been a very good chance of winning the WDC. But does it potentially upset Oscar.

I think in a way Lando as driven well enough to have been given that opportunity at the same time, I think Oscar has shown something Lando hasn't quite as well yet. To take more 'risk' with overtakes - calculated yes, but the I am not here to make friends attitude. One that stands out in a way was his overtake of Lando with the dive down the inside in the first few corners. I get where Lando might have been thinking as a team we hold Max off then go from there but Oscar saw his opportunity where Lando left the door open.

Oscar still doesn't have the one lap pace of Lando for quali that hurts. Feels too like he has had a few more lapeses than Lando - not mistakes just races or periods of races where he seemed just a little off the pace. Where I don't think he could drive at the same lap time as Lando -where Lando has been outdriven my Oscar but not to the point Oscar could drive away...if that makes any sense at all. Bit of experence there and I think it will improve from both of them

[organic]

Oscar has better overall racecraft & is as quick as Lando when he's on it despite 5 years less experience. He lacks consistency ATM but I feel that's something that always comes with experience (unlike for example more speed). Both will improve but logically it's unlikely that Lando will be improving as much as Oscar still is. Not to mention Oscar's more steadfast mindset.

Imo McLaren should get ready to put eggs in the Oscar basket long term, and I think they see this which is why making piastri a #2 from very early on simply wasn't an option for them this year. Alienating piastri while Merc are looking for a Hamilton replacement and red bull need a pilot wouldn't have been smart

The extra points that would've been on offer by prioritising Norris more earlier in the championship don't add up to a lot either imo. 20 at a push.

[FittingMechanics]

I don't think Oscar ever really showed he is faster than Norris. In Hungary he got the jump at the start. In Baku he qualified well ahead because Norris had bad luck in qualifying. Maybe Monza, I don't really remember details of that race.

About better racecraft, he does seem to be more aggressive and decisive (some wheel banging proves that) but he isn't as good at managing tires.

Not sure I agree any of them have significantly different ceiling.

[mwillems]

Even if they don't put their eggs in one basket, to be a number 1 driver you have to have the talent and mindset to claim it.

Lando hasn't been able to convert his one lap pace into the points he needs to go for the WDC or be number 1 at his own team.

Even with his poor performances Piastri has pulled in about the same points as Lando over the past 11 or 12 GPs.

I wouldn't put my eggs in any basket yet, I think Oscar has some way to go in consistency, racecraft and tyre management. I'm happy for them to fight it out. If Lando can't get on top of Oscar next year then the writing is on the wall. With 4 years more experience in F1 and experience with the team and the car, he shouldn't have ever needed the team to prioritise him.

[basti313]

I don't think Oscar ever really showed he is faster than Norris. In Hungary he got the jump at the start. In Baku he qualified well ahead because Norris had bad luck in qualifying. Maybe Monza, I don't really remember details of that race.

In Monza they did less strategic errors on Piastri. They did not pit him into traffic. That was basically the difference, his overall pace was same, his strategy in terms of tire management worse as he was in the end too late to catch Leclerc. They could not have swapped, as there was still the chance to get Leclerc and Norris was much too far away.

Funny thing in hindsight: Verstappen was the traffic, that prevented Norris from winning.

[mwillems]

I don't think Oscar ever really showed he is faster than Norris. In Hungary he got the jump at the start. In Baku he qualified well ahead because Norris had bad luck in qualifying. Maybe Monza, I don't really remember details of that race.

About better racecraft, he does seem to be more aggressive and decisive (some wheel banging proves that) but he isn't as good at managing tires.

Not sure I agree any of them have significantly different ceiling.

Baku is a win that Oscar ripped from Charles' hands. A really impressive win.

Agree that Lando had bad luck, but that doesn't detract in my mind from what Oscar did.

[ScuderiaLeo]

Even if they don't put their eggs in one basket, to be a number 1 driver you have to have the talent and mindset to claim it.

Lando hasn't been able to convert his one lap pace into the points he needs to go for the WDC or be number 1 at his own team.

Even with his poor performances Piastri has pulled in about the same points as Lando over the past 11 or 12 GPs.

I wouldn't put my eggs in any basket yet, I think Oscar has some way to go in consistency, racecraft and tyre management. I'm happy for them to fight it out. If Lando can't get on top of Oscar next year then the writing is on the wall. With 4 years more experience in F1 and experience with the team and the car, he shouldn't have ever needed the team to prioritise him.

If you don't think Norris is WDC worthy, I don't see how Piastri can be either. His highs are much lower. Even adjusting for moments like the Brazil sprint where he gave up a point, he's far behind Norris this year. He just doesn't have the pace to be a champion right now. Of course, it's possible to develop this. But when you look at drivers like Verstappen, Leclerc, and even Russell, they were clearly quick right from their first few years. It's rare to be slow in your rookie years then suddenly develop race winning pace like Piastri would have to do.

Piastri is better than Norris in many areas. Particularly in wheel to wheel and at starts. But these skills aren't helpful if you can't back them up with pace. Baku was impressive but I feel like that's really the only outstanding moment for him this year. Zandvoort, Monza, Singapore, and most of this triple header all ranged from uninspiring to downright bad.

This leaves the issue of neither driver potentially being good enough. But even if that's true, what then? There aren't many other options. I don't see Verstappen moving to McLaren. Leclerc will stay with Ferrari forever. The only reasonable option is Russell and that's more of a sidegrade than a direct upgrade.

Norris may be disappointing this year but there are few drivers better than him available for the foreseeable future and I don't see how so many people see Piastri as the future when he hasn't proven himself yet.