Red Bull suspects McLaren and a few other teams of filling water into the tyres

[TFSA]

Can somebody please explain in simple terms how this would ever be an advantage?

Surely any water warms up in a single lap (reaches maximum heat capacity) then it is nothing more than a disadvantage due to its weight.

Grip matters way more than weight. Tires are pretty much everything in F1. Their condition matters way more than a little extra weight. 10 kilograms of extra weight is a laptime loss of 0.3 seconds +/-. A tire in bad condition will lose you more than that, especially if you go off.

Also, even evaporated, is still useful for conducting heat inside the tire. It would lead to a more even heat distribution, and therefore lessen the heating cycles the tire goes through on a lap. That would certainly improve the lifespan of the tire immensely.

The disadvantage is that steam creates pressure - even more than heated air. Teams generally don't want to run their tires with too much pressure. And also, this should theoretically be detectable by the FIA by tire pressure sensors.

[chrisc90]

They need to get those little blue stickers they put inside phones/devices that change to red when they detect moisture.
Given they should be triggered by humidity rather than touching a fluid.

Also, why does the FIA just not give teams their own sealed bottles of air to check/inflate tyres.

[Farnborough]

Can somebody please explain in simple terms how this would ever be an advantage?

Surely any water warms up in a single lap (reaches maximum heat capacity) then it is nothing more than a disadvantage due to its weight.

Grip matters way more than weight. Tires are pretty much everything in F1. Their condition matters way more than a little extra weight. 10 kilograms of extra weight is a laptime loss of 0.3 seconds +/-. A tire in bad condition will lose you more than that, especially if you go off.

Also, even evaporated, is still useful for conducting heat inside the tire. It would lead to a more even heat distribution, and therefore lessen the heating cycles the tire goes through on a lap. That would certainly improve the lifespan of the tire immensely.

The disadvantage is that steam creates pressure - even more than heated air. Teams generally don't want to run their tires with too much pressure. And also, this should theoretically be detectable by the FIA by tire pressure sensors.

The conventional view is essentially wrong footed here in our or journalists appraisal.

We are used to hearing that they don't want too much pressure, which is because the team and driver wants the most flex they can have in the tire. So too high = less grip for a driver.
If there's benefit EXCEEDING that pressure /flex curve by altering heat transfer/stability or whatever the aim is, the pressure absolute (within reasonable boundary) becomes subservient to that quality.

F1 will always trade off one thing IF there's more gain to be had through another method.

The advantage projected here is to have a more consistent tire performance over the stint life by altering the humidity within the tire artificially. That's over and above a policy of lowest possible pressure being the "conventional" route.

It will be interesting to observe if there's anything tangible in coming races.

[SiLo]

Pirelli literally confirmed they fill the tyres for the teams and they are all the same. I'm baffled how this has even gained more traction to be honest.

[bluechris]

Pirelli literally confirmed they fill the tyres for the teams and they are all the same. I'm baffled how this has even gained more traction to be honest.

Is this true? i mean i am sure i have see the teams to mount their tyres in the rims.

[chrisc90]

Pirelli literally confirmed they fill the tyres for the teams and they are all the same. I'm baffled how this has even gained more traction to be honest.

What’s stopping the teams from adding air to them after they have been initially filled?

Unless Pirelli solely adjust the tyre pressures then the teams have amble opportunity to adjust tyre pressures

[Rikhart]

Pirelli literally confirmed they fill the tyres for the teams and they are all the same. I'm baffled how this has even gained more traction to be honest.

That's a bit odd, I seem to remember a team being fined very recently for inflating their tyres when they shouldn't

[Watto]

The technical sided of this thread has been a fantastic read. Something I think at first dismissed as lol yeah right.

But interesting to here how it could be a benefit and the more technical side on how it could work too .

In the end I let it go at Horner/Red Bull playing the political games that is F1 to unsettle the opposition. The little part that keeps me curious is - and there is a little of t with the bib stuff too - that most of these bending of F1 rules that have later had some trith to them have almost always I think come from paddock rumors. When teams monitor one another so closely teams often I think work one another out pretty well too that keeps me a little interested particularly knowing the difference it could make.

[organic]

Pirelli literally confirmed they fill the tyres for the teams and they are all the same. I'm baffled how this has even gained more traction to be honest.

There is a valve and the team can just add water using the valve later.

Mario Isola of Pirelli

injecting water into tires would theoretically be a simple process, the implications are complex and involve potential downsides, according to Isola.

“How to do that is very easy,” he said. “You have a valve – and you just put water inside."

Anyway for me this is all more significant than the bib trick because the car characteristics this exploit would cause can be seen on the McLaren. And this saga seems to be continuing to be discussed in the paddock, whereas the bib trick was very quickly resolved. The bib trick ultimately can't gain you any race pace - it will just improve the ride height compromise between quali and race, which should benefit quali pace, where red bull have never been amazing anyway.

[AR3-GP]

Pirelli literally confirmed they fill the tyres for the teams and they are all the same. I'm baffled how this has even gained more traction to be honest.

Mercedes just got a sporting penalty for adjusting their pressures on the grid...

Pirelli doesn't fill the tires for the teams beyond the standard procedure for "mounting" of the tires to the wheel rims at the onsite the Pirelli tent. From then on, the teams are making the adjustments. That's why there are regulations saying you can't attempt to manipulate the composition or use something other than air. Teams are regularly making pressure adjustments to affect balance of the car and grip levels in the anticipated weather conditions. It happens between qualy runs, in free practice, and before the races. Why would these regulations be there if Pirelli was the only one allowed to inflate the tires. Foreign substances can be introduced by the teams at any time.

[FW17]

My view of this topic is through the press in quotes from European journalists reporting that in Singapore, a RB tech while waiting their tire dismount after racing saw McL and some other teams had liquid coming from the tire carcass of those teams and voiced that suspicion based on their own previous knowledge of effect possible.

I think this cant be true, if it had happened, they could have immediately called for more of his team to came and see this tyre. I don't think Pirelli took those tyres and ran. Everybody has a phone, the RB tech could have just snapped a few pics of the wet inside of the tyre.

[Alexf1]

Red Bull probably brought up the moistered rims&tyres with the FIA right after they saw it in Singapore. Maybe FIA warned McLaren (and other teams) about it before the US GP. This could've triggered McLaren to turn the tables on Red Bull and play up the bib thing to the max as they already got a toy taken away by the FIA and to lose another important one would seriously hurt them.

[AR3-GP]

Evidence of this tactic was alleged to have been spotted with water and watermarks seen inside some rims after tyres had been stripped at Pirelli's base post-race in Singapore.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/is-f1 ... /10671570/

[Tommy Cookers]

Singapore has very high humidity - the highest in F1
how can't a tyre eg inflated at mid-day legitimately exhaust condensation if eg deflated later in the day ?

[organic]

Singapore has very high humidity - the highest in F1
how can't a tyre eg inflated in early afternoon legitimately exhaust condensation if eg deflated late in the day ?

I think because they're filled with completely dry air? According to Isola

We supply the tyres with dry air inside. We have a dryer connected to our system, and they get all the tyres with dry air, as in the regulations.