2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Mclarenfanboy]

I totally agree. In a such a bizzare turn of events, losing a WCC is a logical conclusion. And that after 26 years of waiting. I still can t believe the guy missed double yellows. If they lose it, it could be a pivotal moment in a driver s carrier. And I don t think in a good way. Hard to come back from something like this. He will be a king od memes.
But let s wait and see. Fingers crossed for the team.

[Watto]

....
While nice in principal I don't know I really like Strellas idea of penalty to fit the crime. I....

Sorry. We´ve seen Stella´s principle through his public comments. In line with MBS decision making. Be biased. Tap on the fingers for MCL. And maximum penalty for the other teams. And if convenient just invent a penalty for the competition....
Prefer ZAK. Blunt, straight but fair.

I get its all part of the game of F1 these days. I am sure if Max was on the recving end RBR/Horner would have had something to say. I totally understand Stellas pov too. But I just find what he is discussing just creates more problems then it solves. What if a car ran over the mirror punctured a tyre and put a driver into a wall. Flicked up the debris that hit a driver going at 200-300kmph. Just opens up too much a can of worms IMO when too much leeway if given to Stewards. Change the set penalty if its too harsh.Just to me not pick and choose in a pretty loose scale what is and isn't serious. We've seen the issues with that enough in recent times.

I think too it was very poor they didn't at least call a VSC, if there wasn't a big enough gap in the traffic then make it a full SC.

[basti313]

I get its all part of the game of F1 these days.

Yes. And McLaren is good in it, Zak and Andrea are excellent managers for this. With Wheatley leaving RedBull, Ferrari and Mercedes also not having "bite" on these positions...I think they are well prepared for next season on this.

I am sure if Max was on the recving end RBR

The problem is...most people here (just avoiding saying "everyone") are convinced that Max would simply not have such an error. Not a good example per se.

Horner would have had something to say.

Sure.

I totally understand Stellas pov too.

I do not understand it, I do not think he gave a real POV besides it is ok. He basically confirms the infraction is there and the penalty is like this in the rule book, right? He could just stop at this point. If we talk about "opinion" or POV this is also where it ends for me.
Everything else is a lot of words about why they should not give the pen, but he is not giving a real argument, he is just speaking emotions, complaining about the level of the pen. But, again, no real reason or opinion why it should not be given like this, he simply does not talk about the "why".
If he would have said something like "because we are McLaren" or "because the sun did not shine", we would have something to speak about. But he did not...so I am failing to argue, to discuss his statement at all because there were no arguments. Same goes for Norris, I see nothing to discuss unfortunately.

I think too it was very poor they didn't at least call a VSC, if there wasn't a big enough gap in the traffic then make it a full SC.

Well, I would split this from the discussion. They always need some time to react and they always throw a flag first. The infraction on the double yellow is/was there and would have been always there even if they would have thrown a SC in the same lap afterwards. I see no way of throwing the SC before the infraction as it was shortly after the flag came out.

[FittingMechanics]

Let's talk a little about strategy. I am of the opinion that McLaren messed up by pitting Piastri before the safety car. Two cars had punctures, there was a lot of debris on the track so it was quite likely that we will get at least a VSC or a SC. It is not really looking at it with hindsight as it was obvious some type of SC will have to be thrown.

Piastri was 8-9 seconds behind Norris so there was plenty of time to double stack if the cars are not bunched up. Maybe they worried that the safety car will come out and bunch the field up? Not sure, really can't see how that would work as any SC leaving the pits would have to be ahead of them so they could react and pit both cars.

By pitting Piastri during during green he ended up behind Leclerc. This could end up being a crucial mistake as it is a 6 points swing. Instead of 21 we would have 27 going into final weekend.

Quite frustrating to have so many small (and big) mistakes during the season.

[bananapeel23]

Norris is having a simultaneously awesome and terrible season.

His qualifying is amazing. He shows flashes of incredible race craft and race management. Then he makes some of the most bone-headed mistakes possible.

[Watto]

I get its all part of the game of F1 these days.

Yes. And McLaren is good in it, Zak and Andrea are excellent managers for this. With Wheatley leaving RedBull, Ferrari and Mercedes also not having "bite" on these positions...I think they are well prepared for next season on this.

I am sure if Max was on the recving end RBR

The problem is...most people here (just avoiding saying "everyone") are convinced that Max would simply not have such an error. Not a good example per se.

Horner would have had something to say.

Sure.

I totally understand Stellas pov too.

I do not understand it, I do not think he gave a real POV besides it is ok. He basically confirms the infraction is there and the penalty is like this in the rule book, right? He could just stop at this point. If we talk about "opinion" or POV this is also where it ends for me.
Everything else is a lot of words about why they should not give the pen, but he is not giving a real argument, he is just speaking emotions, complaining about the level of the pen. But, again, no real reason or opinion why it should not be given like this, he simply does not talk about the "why".
If he would have said something like "because we are McLaren" or "because the sun did not shine", we would have something to speak about. But he did not...so I am failing to argue, to discuss his statement at all because there were no arguments. Same goes for Norris, I see nothing to discuss unfortunately.

I think too it was very poor they didn't at least call a VSC, if there wasn't a big enough gap in the traffic then make it a full SC.

Well, I would split this from the discussion. They always need some time to react and they always throw a flag first. The infraction on the double yellow is/was there and would have been always there even if they would have thrown a SC in the same lap afterwards. I see no way of throwing the SC before the infraction as it was shortly after the flag came out.

I do agree McLaren have gotten good at using the media for gains like this

Wheatly (and Horner publicly ) are good at it too. Interestng to see how they go without Wheatly.

I think Max was too aware of the rules to let it happen but agree, its not an excuse. We saw with the aborted start a few weeks ago how awake Max is.


I understand it but I just don't agree with it. On face value kinda see 20 seconds to get debris off the track everything is fixed. But as I pointed out it the debris caused a puncture that put a driver into a wall - I can't recall is Max's puncture a few years ago I think Baku? where got a puncture was from debris or just a puncture that put him into a wall while leading is why I don;t agree as well as if debris was flicked up and hit a driver. On paper is sound okay but you look into it at if the above happened because they deemed it not that serious there would be an even bigger backlash. This and if they were the ones that benefited they would be calling it fair- Lando even said he would have said the same thing as Max did over the radio if he realized.


Perhaps poorly executed on my part there I think Landos infringement came to quick for a SC/VSC call really. Maybe is they were super efficient but more I think the Lewis and Sainz damage could have been prevented. Probably not Landos penalty. I get there is talk there is there a gap to get a marshal out onto and off the track safely in a gap in the traffic the Sky crew seemed to think that was pretty tight.

[FittingMechanics]

This was not supposed to be a double waved yellow at all.

Double waved yellow is for serious situations when there is a hazard wholly or partly blocking the track and/or marshals working on or beside the track that require the cars to be able to immediately stop. Throwing a double waved yellow on a straight due to a mirror being off track is ridiculous. That was the first mistake race director made. Then the second was waiting for so long to go to VSC or SC. VSC was made for situations like these and then they could send out someone to pick it up. Shouldn't be that hard to do, you have perfect visibility on the straight. Even throwing a SC would be fine as it would be something F1 would prefer (bunches everyone up together).

Then because of the mistake that they rectified 30 seconds later (only 5 or 6 cars saw the double waved yellow), the infringement is sent to the stewards who take 20+ minutes to reach a decision, during which we had two safety cars and then they dish out the penalty without taking into the account mitigating factors (double waved was a mistake, no real danger, long time to reach a decision, ...).

If they picked it up without a full SC, Norris still gets his penalty but he is in a much better position as he still has his gap to the rest of the field, he probably slots in P8 or something like that and can fight back.

The way they handled it was the worst possible case. Wait for it to be shattered, then punctures and much longer safety car to clean up and then Norris gets his penalty almost at the end.

It's probably not intentional but they obviously stewarding needs to be improved in order to be quicker.

[Watto]

Let's talk a little about strategy. I am of the opinion that McLaren messed up by pitting Piastri before the safety car. Two cars had punctures, there was a lot of debris on the track so it was quite likely that we will get at least a VSC or a SC. It is not really looking at it with hindsight as it was obvious some type of SC will have to be thrown.

Piastri was 8-9 seconds behind Norris so there was plenty of time to double stack if the cars are not bunched up. Maybe they worried that the safety car will come out and bunch the field up? Not sure, really can't see how that would work as any SC leaving the pits would have to be ahead of them so they could react and pit both cars.

By pitting Piastri during during green he ended up behind Leclerc. This could end up being a crucial mistake as it is a 6 points swing. Instead of 21 we would have 27 going into final weekend.

Quite frustrating to have so many small (and big) mistakes during the season.

Yeah agree that was very poor by McLaren thought too at the time the SC/VSC coming was obvious and to wait.

This was not supposed to be a double waved yellow at all.

Double waved yellow is for serious situations when there is a hazard wholly or partly blocking the track and/or marshals working on or beside the track that require the cars to be able to immediately stop. Throwing a double waved yellow on a straight due to a mirror being off track is ridiculous. That was the first mistake race director made. Then the second was waiting for so long to go to VSC or SC. VSC was made for situations like these and then they could send out someone to pick it up. Shouldn't be that hard to do, you have perfect visibility on the straight. Even throwing a SC would be fine as it would be something F1 would prefer (bunches everyone up together).

Then because of the mistake that they rectified 30 seconds later (only 5 or 6 cars saw the double waved yellow), the infringement is sent to the stewards who take 20+ minutes to reach a decision, during which we had two safety cars and then they dish out the penalty without taking into the account mitigating factors (double waved was a mistake, no real danger, long time to reach a decision, ...).

If they picked it up without a full SC, Norris still gets his penalty but he is in a much better position as he still has his gap to the rest of the field, he probably slots in P8 or something like that and can fight back.

The way they handled it was the worst possible case. Wait for it to be shattered, then punctures and much longer safety car to clean up and then Norris gets his penalty almost at the end.

It's probably not intentional but they obviously stewarding needs to be improved in order to be quicker.

I tend to be okay with the double waved yellows while RC figure out what they are going to do. The mirror was in the middle of the track. Off the racing line sure but going into the main over taking zone on the track. I feel like the double yellow can we get away with a VSC or do we needs a full SC where are the gaps to get a marshal on and off the track safely with some leeway built in.

What I totally agree with is it took way too long. A full SC they could have had the mirror off the track in a lap. Not ruined Lewis and Sainz race and not had a longer SC with smashed carbon fibre everywhere. I know it takes a bit of time to assess but it took way too long

[Dafnalina]

Norris is having a simultaneously awesome and terrible season.

His qualifying is amazing. He shows flashes of incredible race craft and race management. Then he makes some of the most bone-headed mistakes possible.

By watching his onboard, listening to Will yapping as always, the timing of him just passing by the moment the yellow boards flashed, the green light immediately after, etc. I don't think it's fair to pin this solely on Lando. The others were lucky the caught everything at the start of the straight and their engineers informed them of it. Max was also not distracted with a car in front and an incompetent race engineer.

[chrisc90]

Norris is having a simultaneously awesome and terrible season.

His qualifying is amazing. He shows flashes of incredible race craft and race management. Then he makes some of the most bone-headed mistakes possible.

By watching his onboard, listening to Will yapping as always, the timing of him just passing by the moment the yellow boards flashed, the green light immediately after, etc. I don't think it's fair to pin this solely on Lando. The others were lucky the caught everything at the start of the straight and their engineers informed them of it. Max was also not distracted with a car in front and an incompetent race engineer.

Don’t forget the double waved yellows by the Marshall that were put LONG before the Marshall LED panel was illuminated

[FittingMechanics]

Don’t forget the double waved yellows by the Marshall that were put LONG before the Marshall LED panel was illuminated

Yeah, Max saw the double waved yellow flag, not the board. Good job by him, these small things add up during the season. Imagine if Lando had a chance at WDC and this took him out.

[Balalu]

Radio comunication really needs to improve. I don't know the behind the scenes discussions, but the "Lando, how is your pace compared to what my mother is cooking for Christmas. Also, box this lap if you think that Max will be skiing in the holidays." is simply not on.

Too much chatter. Should utter only the usefull/informative words.

[f1isgood]

My take on Norris is that he's a superfast driver. Probably as fast as Max is or anyone else is. He also has good race management in the sense that he can take care of his tires well and can still go fast. His weakness especially with respect to Max is in racecraft and general awareness of what's going on.

Max and GP are also very precise and experienced pros, and with time hopefully it'll come. Norris can learn a lot though. Hopefully he will take the next step next year.

[mwillems]

Radio comunication really needs to improve. I don't know the behind the scenes discussions, but the "Lando, how is your pace compared to what my mother is cooking for Christmas. Also, box this lap if you think that Max will be skiing in the holidays." is simply not on.

Too much chatter. Should utter only the usefull/informative words.

There was another where he said "Lando, I know you might bite my head off for asking, but..."

To which Lando replied "Speak up, I can't hear you".

Too much friendship in that moment, it needs cold race management. Is there an issue that they can't distinguish between their race relationship, general working professional relationship and friendship?

[Peter Piper]

Norris is having a simultaneously awesome and terrible season.

His qualifying is amazing. He shows flashes of incredible race craft and race management. Then he makes some of the most bone-headed mistakes possible.

By watching his onboard, listening to Will yapping as always, the timing of him just passing by the moment the yellow boards flashed, the green light immediately after, etc. I don't think it's fair to pin this solely on Lando. The others were lucky the caught everything at the start of the straight and their engineers informed them of it. Max was also not distracted with a car in front and an incompetent race engineer.

Don’t forget the double waved yellows by the Marshall that were put LONG before the Marshall LED panel was illuminated

What purpose do the LED panels serve? If, for example, you miss seeing the flags (as it's night time) and then the LED is turned on as you pass then apparently you get penalised. Surely there needs to be an allowance for the drivers to actually be able to see the LEDs before you accuse them of not reacting?