I agree. This is what I meant by my earlier comment. It always surprises me how little leeway people in the McLaren thread give Norris. I understand he's made many mistakes this season, but context matters too. The drivers should be able to rely on their team to relay them the most up-to-date information in a clear and efficient way. McLaren and Joseph don't do that.Dafnalina wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 14:18By watching his onboard, listening to Will yapping as always, the timing of him just passing by the moment the yellow boards flashed, the green light immediately after, etc. I don't think it's fair to pin this solely on Lando. The others were lucky the caught everything at the start of the straight and their engineers informed them of it. Max was also not distracted with a car in front and an incompetent race engineer.
That are no mitigating factors.FittingMechanics wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 13:58they dish out the penalty without taking into the account mitigating factors (double waved was a mistake, no real danger, long time to reach a decision, ...).
Again...it is neither good to mix the cleaning as you say yourself with the penalty as it does not change anything, nor does it make sense to discuss track cleaning in the McLaren thread. There are much better posts on this even in the penalty thread.Watto wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 14:14What I totally agree with is it took way too long. A full SC they could have had the mirror off the track in a lap. Not ruined Lewis and Sainz race and not had a longer SC with smashed carbon fibre everywhere. I know it takes a bit of time to assess but it took way too long
Post of the dayBalalu wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 15:01Radio comunication really needs to improve. I don't know the behind the scenes discussions, but the "Lando, how is your pace compared to what my mother is cooking for Christmas. Also, box this lap if you think that Max will be skiing in the holidays." is simply not on.
Too much chatter. Should utter only the usefull/informative words.
You gotta find a good and suitable replacement first, and those are hard to find. Remember when they replaced Will with some other guy last year and it was a horror show.ScuderiaLeo wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 15:22It's very reminiscent of Xavi and Leclerc in Ferrari 2022-2023. Xavi got replaced. Joseph should too. Sentimentality is not a reason to keep someone who isn't good at their job. I can't even count the number of times this year Joseph has caused Norris unnecessary confusion, and that's only the radios that get aired.
It's mandated isn't it? They have to do it.Mclarenfanboy wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 16:42https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/316488/m ... -ward.html
Is it smart to do that when you are fighting for a WCC, I bet Red Bull would not do a seasion with a test driver in a first practice on such a crucial weekend. Hope they know what they are doing.
Well, I guess they could just fulfill their obligation next race?Mclarenfanboy wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 16:42https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/316488/m ... -ward.html
Is it smart to do that when you are fighting for a WCC, I bet Red Bull would not do a seasion with a test driver in a first practice on such a crucial weekend. Hope they know what they are doing.
"All Formula 1 teams are required to put two 'rookies' in the car each season. Lando Norris' car has already been used once, so it is Piastri's turn to skip a practice in Abu Dhabi."Mclarenfanboy wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 16:42https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/316488/m ... -ward.html
Is it smart to do that when you are fighting for a WCC, I bet Red Bull would not do a seasion with a test driver in a first practice on such a crucial weekend. Hope they know what they are doing.
Xavi was about 100x worse than Joseph. He famously said straight up unintelligible garbage a lot of the time that not even Leclerc understood. Not to mention the fact that he took about zero initiative ever and never gave straight answers without first confirming with the pit wall, even when the answer was obvious.ScuderiaLeo wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 15:22
It's very reminiscent of Xavi and Leclerc in Ferrari 2022-2023. Xavi got replaced. Joseph should too. Sentimentality is not a reason to keep someone who isn't good at their job. I can't even count the number of times this year Joseph has caused Norris unnecessary confusion, and that's only the radios that get aired.
https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/70801643 ... te-stellen"Do you remember Max saying in Silverstone: 'Who is Zak Brown?'. I sent him a funny message and said: 'I want to introduce myself, you may not know me, but I manage McLaren'.
"We are going to compete with four top teams. I can reveal that we are going to develop the car a lot. I am impressed by how brave the team is in terms of the plans for next year. We are really going to change a lot. In Formula 1, you also have to take risks if you want to be the best. I think you have no choice," said Brown
At least Xavi in his defence has a language barrier issue. In not speaking clearly english nor Italian fluently, while Joseph is just underpreforming this season a lotbananapeel23 wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 18:04Xavi was about 100x worse than Joseph. He famously said straight up unintelligible garbage a lot of the time that not even Leclerc understood. Not to mention the fact that he took about zero initiative ever and never gave straight answers without first confirming with the pit wall, even when the answer was obvious.ScuderiaLeo wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 15:22
It's very reminiscent of Xavi and Leclerc in Ferrari 2022-2023. Xavi got replaced. Joseph should too. Sentimentality is not a reason to keep someone who isn't good at their job. I can't even count the number of times this year Joseph has caused Norris unnecessary confusion, and that's only the radios that get aired.
Lovely interview. Very interesting that they are planning on making big changes for the final year of these regulations. I wonder what they’ll come up with. He really has built an amazing team at McLaren.organic wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 18:04Zak brown did an interview with telegraaf. Amusing
https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/70801643 ... te-stellen"Do you remember Max saying in Silverstone: 'Who is Zak Brown?'. I sent him a funny message and said: 'I want to introduce myself, you may not know me, but I manage McLaren'.
Maybe more interestingly he talks about plans for 2025 on the car side
"We are going to compete with four top teams. I can reveal that we are going to develop the car a lot. I am impressed by how brave the team is in terms of the plans for next year. We are really going to change a lot. In Formula 1, you also have to take risks if you want to be the best. I think you have no choice," said Brown
My point isn't that one is worse than the other, it's that they are both bad and unsuitable for their jobs. Bozzi was originally Leclerc's performance engineer and he got promoted to race engineer. I'm sure Norris has someone similar on his team who could be taught to do the job? I'm not saying it needs to be changed right now, but to keep Joseph in this position for 2025 would be ridiculous. He has been the cause of so many of Norris' issues. Especially when you compare him to Stallard, it's clear Norris is not receiving the same quality of information as Piastri is.bananapeel23 wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 18:04Xavi was about 100x worse than Joseph. He famously said straight up unintelligible garbage a lot of the time that not even Leclerc understood. Not to mention the fact that he took about zero initiative ever and never gave straight answers without first confirming with the pit wall, even when the answer was obvious.
This is was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.mwillems wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 15:06There was another where he said "Lando, I know you might bite my head off for asking, but..."Balalu wrote: ↑02 Dec 2024, 15:01Radio comunication really needs to improve. I don't know the behind the scenes discussions, but the "Lando, how is your pace compared to what my mother is cooking for Christmas. Also, box this lap if you think that Max will be skiing in the holidays." is simply not on.
Too much chatter. Should utter only the usefull/informative words.
To which Lando replied "Speak up, I can't hear you".
Too much friendship in that moment, it needs cold race management. Is there an issue that they can't distinguish between their race relationship, general working professional relationship and friendship?
