2025 McLaren F1 Team

[MTudor]

So did I, however I believe Coca Cola bought a stake in 2015 then Monster Beverage corporation bought them back in 2018

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_Beverage

The share buyback was of non CC shares and increased they holding to near 20%.

As to why they arent on the car, could be for any number of reasons.

I'd guess one reason might be that McLaren upped the sponsorship prices due to winning the constructors title and Coca Cola ducked out. McLaren will have the most visibility in the pit lane being in the number 1 garage. It'll be weird seeing them in that position after such a long time. But a good weird.

Remember the years we were on the back end of the pitlane....

[Darth-Piekus]

Indeed. I also remember people saying that a customer team could never beat a works team even if they obtained the best workforce or infrastructures. How the tables have turned and times changed.

[Arcanum]

At the time people like Ron Dennis said that, a customer would not get the same engine modes as the manufacturer. “Party Mode” in qualifying was not available for everyone.

So there was a lot of truth to that view in 2014 and for a few years afterwards. And it is what drove Dennis to Honda.

Once the engine regulations forced equivalence across manufacturers and customers, there’s a much diminished benefit for a manufacturer. Mostly around packaging being biased to their design (more beneficial in the early years of a rule change) and access to the best of the spec engines (even identical engines will differ by a few bhp due to tolerances)

[Cs98]

Indeed. I also remember people saying that a customer team could never beat a works team even if they obtained the best workforce or infrastructures. How the tables have turned and times changed.

We're in the midst of an engine freeze which has meant that customers have had time to adapt to their engines when it comes to chassi, gearbox, cooling etc. Once engines start changing every year (again) expect some form of advantage to return to manufacturers. They'll be designing their engine and cooling package to be perfectly integrated into their own chassi first and foremost. Customers are always one step behind and not in control of the design process.

[Darth-Piekus]

That is not true in regards to Mclaren. Mclaren has a semi factory status as they have a saying in the Mercedes engine design.

[Cs98]

That is not true in regards to Mclaren. Mclaren has a semi factory status as they have a saying in the Mercedes engine design.

They are a customer team whatever their PR department tells you. HPP is a wholly owned subsidiary of Mercedes, who own and operate their own factory team. Engines will always be designed with that team in mind first, as they have been for the past 15 years. Any considerations or wishes that McLaren may have are secondary or tertiary.

Whose team is Hywel Thomas on, what shirt is he wearing? "Semi-factory status", that's a good one

[Vanja #66]

Gaslighting and trolling are usually more successful when facts can't be checked in less than 10 seconds

“I know that in our new contract, without going into great detail, the areas in which you would have shortcomings by being a customer versus a works team, we’ve addressed that and we have a great agreement with HPP [Mercedes High-Performance Powertrains].”

“What it means, in reality, is we have more influence and awareness early on in their development,” he explained.

“So we’re not handed a final product without having an input into what that final product looks like and having earlier awareness of where they’re headed.

“So the things we need to design around the power unit, we’re not starting that much later than the works team.”

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/11/ ... s-pu-deal/

[Cs98]

I'm well aware. The thing is, as anyone who follows this sport should know, media comments are not statements of fact. They are carefully constructed messages to fans and sponsors, promoting the team. If anyone genuinely believes that Merc would give up control of their design process or "share" with McLaren, they are deluding themselves. That's immediately giving a leg up to Ferrari and Red Bull who are in total control, which is obviously not happening. If there is ever a conflict of where to go with development there has to be a senior partner, and that is Mercedes. What we are likely looking at is a deal where McLaren will be "kept in the loop" more than your average customer (which is good), but they are by no means a factory or "semi"-factory team (whatever that means). I'll leave it at that.

[Emag]

I'm well aware. The thing is, as anyone who follows this sport should know, media comments are not statements of fact. They are carefully constructed messages to fans and sponsors, promoting the team. If anyone genuinely believes that Merc would give up control of their design process or "share" with McLaren, they are deluding themselves. That's immediately giving a leg up to Ferrari and Red Bull who are in total control, which is obviously not happening. If there is ever a conflict of where to go with development there has to be a senior partner, and that is Mercedes. What we are likely looking at is a deal where McLaren will be "kept in the loop" more than your average customer (which is good), but they are by no means a factory or "semi"-factory team (whatever that means). I'll leave it at that.

It’s a statement of a contract signed by both parties but okay, you can keep thinking its PR bullshit as if Mercedes gains anything “lying” to cover McLaren’s ass.

Also, no team is in “full-control” of the power unit design. The power unit is prioritised. Nobody will severely handicap the engine for more bodywork freedom in this era. Early-Honda proved that it is not worth it.

On top of that, these power units have largely been the same for a long while now. Partly because of the frozen regulations, but primarily because the formula is near perfect. Gains are marginal and come with very minor physical differences to the unit.

A customer team nowadays has almost zero disadvantage to the works team and they have no excuses or anyone to blame but themselves if at the very least they don’t match the pace of the works team.

[bauc]

Indeed. I also remember people saying that a customer team could never beat a works team even if they obtained the best workforce or infrastructures. How the tables have turned and times changed.

Yes, but this was before FIA made mandatory for ever PU manufacturer to provide 100% same tools to their customer teams including software, and with that the hurdle was eliminated, thus enabling a team like Mclaren to beat Mercedes, something that with the previous rule set was not possible.

[Seanspeed]

It’s a statement of a contract signed by both parties but okay, you can keep thinking its PR bullshit as if Mercedes gains anything “lying” to cover McLaren’s ass.

Also, no team is in “full-control” of the power unit design. The power unit is prioritised. Nobody will severely handicap the engine for more bodywork freedom in this era. Early-Honda proved that it is not worth it.

On top of that, these power units have largely been the same for a long while now. Partly because of the frozen regulations, but primarily because the formula is near perfect. Gains are marginal and come with very minor physical differences to the unit.

A customer team nowadays has almost zero disadvantage to the works team and they have no excuses or anyone to blame but themselves if at the very least they don’t match the pace of the works team.

We have no idea what that contract actually says. And they aren't saying it's a complete lie, they are just saying that the degree to which any sharing is happening is still unlikely to have Mclaren on complete equal footing with the factory team in this area. It's not an unreasonable suggestion at all, and frankly I think you'd have to be naive to believe otherwise.

And obviously this is all going to be a lot more relevant to NEXT year, as has been pointed out already.

[Emag]

It’s a statement of a contract signed by both parties but okay, you can keep thinking its PR bullshit as if Mercedes gains anything “lying” to cover McLaren’s ass.

Also, no team is in “full-control” of the power unit design. The power unit is prioritised. Nobody will severely handicap the engine for more bodywork freedom in this era. Early-Honda proved that it is not worth it.

On top of that, these power units have largely been the same for a long while now. Partly because of the frozen regulations, but primarily because the formula is near perfect. Gains are marginal and come with very minor physical differences to the unit.

A customer team nowadays has almost zero disadvantage to the works team and they have no excuses or anyone to blame but themselves if at the very least they don’t match the pace of the works team.

We have no idea what that contract actually says. And they aren't saying it's a complete lie, they are just saying that the degree to which any sharing is happening is still unlikely to have Mclaren on complete equal footing with the factory team in this area. It's not an unreasonable suggestion at all, and frankly I think you'd have to be naive to believe otherwise.

And obviously this is all going to be a lot more relevant to NEXT year, as has been pointed out already.

No they don’t have equal footing, but they wouldn’t say McLaren has some input on the design phase if that wasn’t true to some degree, which what the guy was denying.

In any case, this was McLaren’s best choice. They get one of the power units which will likely be close to the best, if not the best, while also having more input than a normal customer.

They considered RBPT for a short while, but RBPT is way too inexperienced and I doubt they will be competitive in 2026, whereas a Ferrari-powered McLaren will never happen.

The only other option was to develop it themselves like RedBull, but it’s too late for that. It could be a consideration for the next reg cycle, assuming McLaren keeps an upward trend.

[Darth-Piekus]

In other words they are in a semi factory status compared to a full customer team.

[mwillems]

I think it's really clear, and has been for some time, that if their is any advantage to being a works team, that it is almost immaterial.

Further to this, Mclaren are happy that they feel they are listened to beyond what the regs require.

Clearly the idea, that has been held onto by many esteemed posters on here for years, is largely b*ll*cks.

[the EDGE]

Wednesday cannot come quick enough!