Concept power units from 2030

[trinidefender]

Why not turbo compounding? Lose the complexity and safety issues of the high voltage/current of the current hybrid systems while still retaining a lot of the energy recovery using an exhaust recovery turbine. It wouldn’t even weigh that much or take up much space.

A V10 with a recovery turbine feeding power back to the crankshaft sounds like a fine idea

[Chuckjr]

How about something in this vein?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiZbjAuKk4A

I posted that exact video in the other similar thread to this one.

https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewt ... 7&start=15

[mzso]

well they could have an N/A V10 with an MGU-H
something for everyone

What would be the point (from a technical point of view) of having a V10 with an MGU-H/turbo?

[mzso]

Why not turbo compounding? Lose the complexity and safety issues of the high voltage/current of the current hybrid systems while still retaining a lot of the energy recovery using an exhaust recovery turbine. It wouldn’t even weigh that much or take up much space.

A V10 with a recovery turbine feeding power back to the crankshaft sounds like a fine idea

Wouldn't that just be inefficient, with no ability to store energy. So no gains by using an electric boost at the right time. And no fixing of the turbo lag.

[Tommy Cookers]

well they could have an N/A V10 with an MGU-H
something for everyone

What would be the point (from a technical point of view) of having a V10 with an MGU-H/turbo?

recovery of energy from the exhaust (without affecting crankshaft power)
though crankshaft power can also be traded for electrical power - and vice versa

recovery via a mechanical route ie 'turbo-compounding' is less versatile and increases PU inertia and gearshift time loss

[mzso]

well they could have an N/A V10 with an MGU-H
something for everyone

What would be the point (from a technical point of view) of having a V10 with an MGU-H/turbo?

recovery of energy from the exhaust (without affecting crankshaft power)
though crankshaft power can also be traded for electrical power - and vice versa

recovery via a mechanical route ie 'turbo-compounding' is less versatile and increases PU inertia and gearshift time loss

The point of contention is the V10, if you have turbocharging and H. Seems completely counter intuitive.

[mzso]

While on the the topic of smaller/lighter engines. I wonder why no-one ever mad an X-4, or X-8 engine. (For racing anyway)

[Tommy Cookers]

... I wonder why no-one ever mad an X-4, or X-8 engine. (For racing anyway)

too much vibration
too many camshaft drives
too many machining operations in manufacture

[mzso]

... I wonder why no-one ever mad an X-4, or X-8 engine. (For racing anyway)

too much vibration
too many camshaft drives
too many machining operations in manufacture

Vibration? The opposing pistons could combust at the same time. Which is very good for vibration.
Are the other to reasons much relevant to racing?

[Tommy Cookers]

... I wonder why no-one ever mad an X-4, or X-8 engine. (For racing anyway)

too much vibration
too many camshaft drives
too many machining operations in manufacture

Vibration? The opposing pistons could combust at the same time. Which is very good for vibration.
Are the other to reasons much relevant to racing?

there are no opposing pistons ie opposition is only partial due to the angles chosen
vibration is to do with the motion of masses - it has nothing to do with combustion

[mzso]

too much vibration
too many camshaft drives
too many machining operations in manufacture

Vibration? The opposing pistons could combust at the same time. Which is very good for vibration.
Are the other to reasons much relevant to racing?

there are no opposing pistons ie opposition is only partial due to the angles chosen
vibration is to do with the motion of masses - it has nothing to do with combustion

Pairs of pistons are quite obviously fully opposite each other, as in boxers.
You're overly nitpicky. Of course combustion matters. If piston pairs don't move symmetrically and fire at the same moment, the forces don't cancel each other out.

[Tommy Cookers]

Pairs of pistons are quite obviously fully opposite each other, as in boxers....

fully opposite aka opposed means when a piston is going east another is going west
(this requires more than one crankpin)
'quite obviously' your pistons aren't moving like that
(you have only one crankpin)

yours is equivalent to two very vibratory twin cylinder engines 'joined' at an intermediate and arbitrary angle
the outcome is still vibratory even with crankshaft counterweighting
only if joined at 90 deg (and counterweighted) can there always be in sum zero force ie no vibration at any frequency

so yes a 90 deg radial 4 will be smooth (as will be eg a 72 deg radial 5 cyl etc)

yes in the 1930s there was a GP car with a 16 cylinder 2 stroke aircooled radial - it overheated

[toraabe]

Forget that. Two stroke with turbo instead..

[mzso]

Pairs of pistons are quite obviously fully opposite each other, as in boxers....

fully opposite aka opposed means when a piston is going east another is going west
(this requires more than one crankpin)
'quite obviously' your pistons aren't moving like that
(you have only one crankpin)

yours is equivalent to two very vibratory twin cylinder engines 'joined' at an intermediate and arbitrary angle
the outcome is still vibratory even with crankshaft counterweighting
only if joined at 90 deg can there be in sum no vibratory forces at engine frequency

so yes a 90 deg radial 4 will be smooth (as will be a 120 deg radial 3 cylinder or a 72 deg radial 5 cyl etc etc)

yes in the 1930s there was a GP car with a 16? cylinder 2 stroke ? aircooled radial

Well, that's the only animation I found. So I said it with words.
So it could be compact and low vibration. Then the question is whether it matters for racing (or other high performance) applications that it has a lot of camshafts and requires more machining.

[Tommy Cookers]

So it could be compact and low vibration.

no it couldn't
it could be compact or low vibration

a 90 deg X4 could have perfect balance but isn't compact or well-suited to car installation)
(and in correction of my earlier post actually a 120 deg 3 cylinder radial doesn't have perfect balance)
a compact X4 wouldn't be close to 90 deg and so would vibrate eg more than any car (3 or more cylinder) engine