2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Xyz22]

The straight losses start immediately after the turns, so I'm not sure it's aero related, seems more a lack of traction or a different deployment.

Nothing is wrong with the deployment. What we're seeing is pure lack of grunt, otherwise loses would primarily manifest only in top end, but as it is they are present throughout entire acceleration phase. I've been saying it since late last year that honda PU has somehow been caught and even overtaken by merc/ferrari in the freeze era. what is also likely is RB18, RB19 and early RB20 were making honda look better than it actually was all along. Margin are small but now almost ever-present, so at some point people will have to start acknowledging it.

anyway, here's verstappen's lap
https://streamable.com/es8o3v

Thanks for the lap, as usual.
The car looks really strong in high speed, maybe class of the field or close to it. On the other hand it didn’t look great in the last corner before the first DRS zone and especially in the slow speed section in sector 2.

[bluechris]

I see also small snaps from the rear in acceleration.

[Seanspeed]

Engine power advantage, is a misleading detail. Max lost to Kimi on the slow corners and up until then, he was up on Kimi. The top speed difference was only 3kph.

https://i.postimg.cc/C1p35TwR/miami2.jpg

Look at the delta moving on every straight. Losses in straight-line total over 2 tenths

Difficult one cuz there's a strong dip(gain) on the way into the corner before each straight, suggesting it could also simply be approach to corner/exit is different.

[Quantum]

Verstappen was on full throttle longer than any other driver. 60.5% vs 57.1% of Antonelli.

F1 data analysis saying he has a more loaded rear wing too vs the faster cars. Which makes total sense given he was actually faster than Antonelli through the fast corners.

[AR3-GP]

While engine development is frozen, meaning Mercedes' new unit is technically the same specification, a fresh one can still offer a slight advantage because outright performance declines with accumulated usage cycles. Red Bull, on the other hand, used a fresh power unit in Jeddah – a true power circuit – and has reverted to a used engine this weekend at Honda’s request, according to sources within the team.

Older PU at Honda’s request.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-v ... /10719182/


I suspect they will be doing the penalty game at Spa…There won’t have been a single year under these regs where Max could start on pole at Spa

[AR3-GP]

I also think that some things are connected. The car has no traction. Wheel spin exiting T16 in Miami. Wheel spin in T2 and T10 exit in Bahrain. Bad starts in Bahrain and Jeddah.

I’m wondering if the weight distribution shift is playing a factor here.

For the sprint, not expecting to move forward given the traction and PU limitations. Although with the speed in S1, the best chance to overtake would be into T11.

[Cs98]

While engine development is frozen, meaning Mercedes' new unit is technically the same specification, a fresh one can still offer a slight advantage because outright performance declines with accumulated usage cycles. Red Bull, on the other hand, used a fresh power unit in Jeddah – a true power circuit – and has reverted to a used engine this weekend at Honda’s request, according to sources within the team.

Older PU at Honda’s request.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-v ... /10719182/


I suspect they will be doing the penalty game at Spa…There won’t have been a single year under these regs where Max could start on pole at Spa

So much for our 5 page speculation about drag and engine deficits. That makes total sense for the deficit. Bit less engine power due to wear, and a bit more drag from wing levels.

As for a potential penalty later in the year, I think that is precisely what they are trying to avoid by doing this. You can use 4 units per season now so that means 6 races per PU. Last year Max lost one unit early in the year, and that was what caused the penalties later. If they avoid losses and juggle the engines properly they will manage with 4, I think.

At this race they've probably decided to put the old PU because it's a sprint weekend. Running the new one would cause excessive wear with SQ, sprint, quali and race. After this race they will shift the old PU into the Friday pool and run the new PU on the weekend. In general the Honda seems more susceptible to wear hence why they are so careful about running it in anger, this also goes back to why they often run lean on Fridays.

[marcel171281]

1 lap with less top speed and people are concluding Honda is lacking power? Data shows a massive top speed difference for the RB between Q2 and Q3. In Q2 the top speed was fine. Also the Soft tyre had more grip, he gained in the slow speed compaired to the laps on the medium.

So not in tyres, not in rear grip, not in Honda in general. Only leaves engine mode. Verstappen did 2 laps on that set, with 2 cooldown laps in between. Not enough to fully charge? Not in strat 1 & mode 1? But slightly more sustainable modes?

[Cs98]

1 lap with less top speed and people are concluding Honda is lacking power? Data shows a massive top speed difference for the RB between Q2 and Q3. In Q2 the top speed was fine. Also the Soft tyre had more grip, he gained in the slow speed compaired to the laps on the medium.

So not in tyres, not in rear grip, not in Honda in general. Only leaves engine mode. Verstappen did 2 laps on that set, with 2 cooldown laps in between. Not enough to fully charge? Not in strat 1 & mode 1? But slightly more sustainable modes?

Again, he had a massive tow in SQ2 on both DRS straights. SQ3 is the representative power curve.

[AR3-GP]

1 lap with less top speed and people are concluding Honda is lacking power? Data shows a massive top speed difference for the RB between Q2 and Q3. In Q2 the top speed was fine. Also the Soft tyre had more grip, he gained in the slow speed compaired to the laps on the medium.

Verstappen had tow from Alonso in SQ2.

[Sergej]

Are they switching to fresh PU after the sprint, or race the entire weekend with the old PU ?

[euv2]

I also think that some things are connected. The car has no traction. Wheel spin exiting T16 in Miami. Wheel spin in T2 and T10 exit in Bahrain. Bad starts in Bahrain and Jeddah.

I’m wondering if the weight distribution shift is playing a factor here.

For the sprint, not expecting to move forward given the traction and PU limitations. Although with the speed in S1, the best chance to overtake would be into T11.

Taking penalties for new a PU this late into the regs is like committing points suicide, overtaking is almost impossible even at SPA, Max is not making up more than 3-4 places there. Last year Max got screwed over by his fresh PU giving up on its 1st weekend in Canada. The goal will be to avoid taking penalties and they should be able to do that.

[ringo]

I don’t think Marko is saying Merc upgraded the engine, just that a new engine gives a bit more power naturally. Still, RB brought new engines last race so the deficit should not be large. To me it’s a combination of two things, a slightly bigger wing than the competition and slightly worse deployment. The deployment deficit has been apparent since 2024, it’s an area where Honda was the best in 2022 but Merc now is.

Honda used an older engine for this race.

[AR3-GP]

Pitlane start for Tsunoda. Changes to suspension setup have been made. They are probably using his sprint to test race setup.

[CjC]

Max will be rubbing his hands with these conditions!