2025 Miami Grand Prix - Miami USA, May 02-04

[AR3-GP]

delete

[ringo]

The Mclaren's biggest adv over the field is not just tyre management.
They have tremendous advantage with mechanical grip. It shows up in slow non-aero corners in terms of superb rotation (excellent front end grip) and great traction at these corner exits as well (excellent rear end grip). This will help McLaren pull off such 1/2 to 1 minute gap finishes at places like Monaco/Singapore/Baku/Austria etc.
Most people think McLaren is scoring over the field with their aero and tyre heat management. I say they are scoring with their sheer mechanical grip as well, borne out of clever suspension design.

The grip is born from the tyre management. Tyre temperatures seem to be their mastery, and they had those tyres nice and warm for the slow speed, and also avoided getting them too hot, even when pushing in dirty air for laps.

on a different note.. Alonso still on zero points. He's having a horrible season. Stroll somehow on 14 points and in 10th.

[kurtj]

Looking back at it, it seems like Oscar dummied Max into that overtake. He kept his car on the outside and made it look like he was going on the outside which made Max to do his usual thing of going deep into the corner to run the car on the outside, out of the track, but Oscar slammed the brake and let Max go deep and then pulled the overtake. Max was never trying to make the corner properly. It was obvious. That was really sharp racing by Oscar. Other drivers would have tried to keep the momentum on the outside and try and overtake, but then Max would do the usual thing of running them out of track. Nice trick there by Oscar.

1 car was 1 second faster than other. I think what's more impressive is Max holding back 2 Mclarens until lap 18. 9 straight laps covering them off in a car that was 1 second slower. None of the Mercedes could offer much of a resistance to the Mclarens today. Russell got taken into T5. Antonelli immediately capitulating in T1. In 2023, I don't remember any of Max's opponents ever putting up such an incrdible resistance for more than a lap when Max had to work through the field with a 1 second a lap advantage.

In 2023, Max started the race in Miami from P9 and had a similar performance advantage to the Mclarens today. Was there a single driver that made Max work as hard that year as Max made those Mclarens work today? What Max was doing today, his defense, was the real "nice trick".

It's so easy to fool with that narrative. I am sure people with little understanding of F1 would buy that. For McLaren, the advantage emerges slowly as the race goes by when other cars starts losing tire performance, their car provides a consistent advantage. So holding off for 14 laps is NOT an achievement. Because for most part, the car performance matches. In F1, nobody can overtake with 6 to 7 tenths advantage as the car ahead in clean air, definitely has advantage. Once the car ahead starts losing tires and starts sliding, McLaren gains advantage that allows them to get more closer and put a move.

McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes are well matched on absolute single lap pace. It's all about tires and McLaren advantage emerges slowly as the laps go by. It's not outright 1 second advantage for every single lap. Over the course of a stint, it provides like 6 to 7 tenths or may be a little more, but not every single lap of the entire race. Over multiple stints, the gap becomes bigger. So trying sell the narrative of 1 second faster, not buying it.

[DDopey]

Brilliant defending of Max over such dominant cars in this race. Using the rules to get that advantage ( as other drivers do), only to perfection. Of course frustrating for the McLaren to work for it, but great for racing and for the entertainment.

[AR3-GP]

I deleted my post because I can’t be bothered.

[venkyhere]

The grip is born from the tyre management.

No.
Check the quali laps (not just Q3) and the traction McLaren showed from T16 and T17.
Mechanical grip is how the tyres are 'pressed' into the tarmac when there is no aero. Non degraded tyres towards end of a stint duration helps 'show it glaringly' in relation to other cars. That's all. But the difference is shown even on quali tyres which haven't 'aged'.

[DChemTech]

Looking back at it, it seems like Oscar dummied Max into that overtake. He kept his car on the outside and made it look like he was going on the outside which made Max to do his usual thing of going deep into the corner to run the car on the outside, out of the track, but Oscar slammed the brake and let Max go deep and then pulled the overtake. Max was never trying to make the corner properly. It was obvious. That was really sharp racing by Oscar. Other drivers would have tried to keep the momentum on the outside and try and overtake, but then Max would do the usual thing of running them out of track. Nice trick there by Oscar.

Honestly, I was on the fence before, but that one move was a good display that maybe Oscar is more championship material than Lando. Being able to use Max's own dirty tactics against him that way is a stark contrast to Lando, who always seem to have a lot more difficulty in that situation.
The fact of the matter is, Max is probably gonna keep getting away with his usual BS this season (even more than usual) because the FIA wants to keep the WDC fight alive for as long as possible, so both McLaren guys will have to learn to deal with it. If Oscar keeps behaving the way he did today that can be a big advantage over Norris.

That 'dirty tactic' was the same Piastri pulled in last race and the sprint. Marginally ahead? Push the other off. Thats what all the regulation ambiguity boiled down to.

[Rikhart]

So now F1 is even more of a borefest, because you will only ever be able to overtake on the inside, everywhere. No more unconventional, creative overtakes around the outside, etc, you will just be pushed off the track. I am also predicting right now some crashes happening because everyone now wants to go to the inside, even the lead car, someone will inevitably crash because of this.

Sheer idiocy.

[basti313]

The grip is born from the tyre management.

No.
Check the quali laps (not just Q3) and the traction McLaren showed from T16 and T17.
Mechanical grip is how the tyres are 'pressed' into the tarmac when there is no aero. Non degraded tyres towards end of a stint duration helps 'show it glaringly' in relation to other cars. That's all. But the difference is shown even on quali tyres which haven't 'aged'.

I think this is too short or not really correct if we not only look at intrinsic features of the car and suspension itself (which are predefined, but also in the end a compromise).
There is no "no aero" in F1. The car always generates a substantial downforce, even in "slow" corners.
And the setup and tire state is always a compromise. If they have more downforce in the high speed, this means less overheating and a more optimal setup for the low speed.
I think you can not separate this traction benefit from the aero.

[ali623]

So now F1 is even more of a borefest, because you will only ever be able to overtake on the inside, everywhere. No more unconventional, creative overtakes around the outside, etc, you will just be pushed off the track. I am also predicting right now some crashes happening because everyone now wants to go to the inside, even the lead car, someone will inevitably crash because of this.

Sheer idiocy.

But that's largely always been the case in F1, that's how racing has always been, it's just been clarified more recently with more stringent rules.

Whether you agree with that type of racing or not is a different matter. Personally, I think F1 should adopt an approach where more racing room is given. For example, if you have any part of your car alongside, whether on the outside or inside, you have to be given a car's width of room. This would lead to much better side-by-side battling.

[Sieper]

So now F1 is even more of a borefest, because you will only ever be able to overtake on the inside, everywhere. No more unconventional, creative overtakes around the outside, etc, you will just be pushed off the track. I am also predicting right now some crashes happening because everyone now wants to go to the inside, even the lead car, someone will inevitably crash because of this.

Sheer idiocy.

But that's largely always been the case in F1, that's how racing has always been, it's just been clarified more recently with more stringent rules.

Whether you agree with that type of racing or not is a different matter. Personally, I think F1 should adopt an approach where more racing room is given. For example, if you have any part of your car alongside, whether on the outside or inside, you have to be given a car's width of room. This would lead to much better side-by-side battling.

It wouldn’t. That means you get overtaken, always. If the car behind is only slightly faster. Brake your FW next to rear tire and then the defenders corner would be compised so hard (a whole cars width) you are chanceless in the acceleration.

[DChemTech]

So now F1 is even more of a borefest, because you will only ever be able to overtake on the inside, everywhere. No more unconventional, creative overtakes around the outside, etc, you will just be pushed off the track. I am also predicting right now some crashes happening because everyone now wants to go to the inside, even the lead car, someone will inevitably crash because of this.

Sheer idiocy.

But that's largely always been the case in F1, that's how racing has always been, it's just been clarified more recently with more stringent rules.

Whether you agree with that type of racing or not is a different matter. Personally, I think F1 should adopt an approach where more racing room is given. For example, if you have any part of your car alongside, whether on the outside or inside, you have to be given a car's width of room. This would lead to much better side-by-side battling.

It wouldn’t. That means you get overtaken, always. If the car behind is only slightly faster. Brake your FW next to rear tire and then the defenders corner would be compised so hard (a whole cars width) you are chanceless in the acceleration.

There should be a better middleground though, maybe halfway alongside or so. As long as the front wing of the car behind is next to the cockpit, keep room.

And anyway id rather see more overtakes instead of cars pushing eachother off continuously because they are 5 micron ahead.

[Sieper]

Agree, they are looking for fairness, so need a rule that can be applied consistantly. That has now been found, so drivers use/exploit it. I too don’t like it. The downside to let them race will always be the stewards ruling. It is often very influenced by outside pressure.

[DDopey]

Actually I think the rules, and I understand the objections , let to some nice racing entertainment yesterday. Instead of just swooshing by with DRS it was now possible by defending the inside line to put up some resistance, even in a slower car.

[Sevach]

The Mclaren's biggest adv over the field is not just tyre management.
They have tremendous advantage with mechanical grip. It shows up in slow non-aero corners in terms of superb rotation (excellent front end grip) and great traction at these corner exits as well (excellent rear end grip). This will help McLaren pull off such 1/2 to 1 minute gap finishes at places like Monaco/Singapore/Baku/Austria etc.
Most people think McLaren is scoring over the field with their aero and tyre heat management. I say they are scoring with their sheer mechanical grip as well, borne out of clever suspension design.

Even in the qualy lap, Max was way ahead before the slow speed section, after Lando was ahead.
He only lost pole only for a mistake in the final corner.

In these cars who are fairly trick to setup they are somehow equal(or close) to RBR in high speed corners, while being way better in slow speed and tire usage.