2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[avantman]

I think i learned something that confused me for a bit regarding Lewis' car preferences as I'd long heard about his preference for a car with a looser rear and couldn't really understand why the Ferrari and maybe the Merc wouldnt work for him.

Then I heard the word "snappy" a lot today and maybe it made a bit more sense.

With indoor karts, it's easy to get the rears to slide in a very predictable way that you can produce quite reliably and control quite easily if you know what you're doing.

This allows you to brake very late, with the expectation that the rear will step out and you can anticipate and control it to rotate the kart round a corner.

However, if those Karts had a loose rear that was also "snappy" there would be no way to be confident to brake late because you couldn't trust how the rear would act while trail braking into the apex, you couldn't trust how it would rotate around the apex, and you couldn't trust it wouldnt step out once you put the power down on corner exit.

So a loose rear, is not the same as a snappy rear, and it seems that is the problem.


Edit: And maybe it's another problem when the rear isn't actually loose at all (which seems much more the case with these regs cars), and instead of going from from controllable slip to a snap, it goes straight from stable to snap like a light switch.

What is the favourite F1 car you have driven?

LH: "The one I'm driving right now. I have always needed a car with good rear grip. I don't mind if I have to struggle with the front because you can catch that up. But I've always wanted to make
sure I have plenty of rear grip and I've rarely had that before. Now, I've finally got a 'rear-ended' car and it's driving into understeer, and you have to work around it with mechanical balance.

Of course that is quite old interview from early 2013, but I don't think anything has fundamentally changed since in terms of his preferences.

[r85]

I've always suspected as much. There's a video out there of Fernando saying how the 2007 McLaren had lots of oversteer, and we could see how Hamilton slide those rears on many a occasion.

However, I do also believe that he'd changed his style significantly to cope with the Pirelli cheese tires. The partnership with Charles could be just be the right impetus for reintroduction of oversteery balance into his toolbox.

I'm very interested in how this shapes up but the signs are looking positive.

We're going slightly off topic but I've been wanting to discuss this for some time, so...

The 2007 Bridgestones were designed to induce oversteer (see https://ms.bridgestone.co.jp/special/do ... regs/2007/). They were robust to sliding, helped by the low minimum weight limit (605 kg). Presumably the aero loads were lower, too. I think Bridgestone may have dialled back the oversteer in 2008.

LH has driven very similarly across all regulation cycles to my eye, including 2007. He went through a longer Pirelli-learning phase than other drivers IIRC, which seemed to alter his driving and approach to car setup for the race in particular.

I think LH and CL might want similar things at the corner entry: They both brake late and deep and want to get into a corner early. After that I think their styles diverge. In the mid-corner, LH finesses while CL hustles. At the exit, LH prefers stability and progressive sliding that breaks away predictably, whereas CL doesn't seem to mind the back end skating around a bit to complete the rotation. Overall CL's car balance looks more forward, and this has been confirmed by LH in an interview recently, I believe. (For me, CL's style straddles interestingly between LH and MV.)

These are just observations from years of watching, I have no data to show for my thinking. I would welcome any data insights to support or discount my thoughts.

Yeah I agree with a lot of these points here. Lewis can work with oversteer if it's predictable enough as he did with the W12 in 2021. It helps that Charles and the others are young so they can work around the unstable GE cars. It's the corner exits/traction where the differences are big. Lewis likes to slam on the throttle but without the stability he hesitates more and that applies in the high speed corners as well.

I can see the 2026 regs fixing a lot of the struggles Lewis has had since 2022 because they won't be so reliant on GE.

[ScuderiaLeo]

Something I found interesting was the drivers after the race said they don't know what's taking the upgrades so long to come. Is it normal for the team not to communicate what's happening in the factory/engineering side to the drivers?

[j_ste]

Something I found interesting was the drivers after the race said they don't know what's taking the upgrades so long to come. Is it normal for the team not to communicate what's happening in the factory/engineering side to the drivers?

I think they are both being unfair the team. They will know that the changes being made are not the kind of changes that you can sprinkle here and sprinkle there.

The floor has helped them but it took time. The next stage is a big update and they need to get it right, so that takes time

When you look at the first six races and the last six races. The improvement is obvious…but patience is required and a recalibration of expectations.

[deadhead]

I've always suspected as much. There's a video out there of Fernando saying how the 2007 McLaren had lots of oversteer, and we could see how Hamilton slide those rears on many a occasion.

However, I do also believe that he'd changed his style significantly to cope with the Pirelli cheese tires. The partnership with Charles could be just be the right impetus for reintroduction of oversteery balance into his toolbox.

I'm very interested in how this shapes up but the signs are looking positive.

We're going slightly off topic but I've been wanting to discuss this for some time, so...

The 2007 Bridgestones were designed to induce oversteer (see https://ms.bridgestone.co.jp/special/do ... regs/2007/). They were robust to sliding, helped by the low minimum weight limit (605 kg). Presumably the aero loads were lower, too. I think Bridgestone may have dialled back the oversteer in 2008.

LH has driven very similarly across all regulation cycles to my eye, including 2007. He went through a longer Pirelli-learning phase than other drivers IIRC, which seemed to alter his driving and approach to car setup for the race in particular.

I think LH and CL might want similar things at the corner entry: They both brake late and deep and want to get into a corner early. After that I think their styles diverge. In the mid-corner, LH finesses while CL hustles. At the exit, LH prefers stability and progressive sliding that breaks away predictably, whereas CL doesn't seem to mind the back end skating around a bit to complete the rotation. Overall CL's car balance looks more forward, and this has been confirmed by LH in an interview recently, I believe. (For me, CL's style straddles interestingly between LH and MV.)

These are just observations from years of watching, I have no data to show for my thinking. I would welcome any data insights to support or discount my thoughts.

Yeah I agree with a lot of these points here. Lewis can work with oversteer if it's predictable enough as he did with the W12 in 2021. It helps that Charles and the others are young so they can work around the unstable GE cars. It's the corner exits/traction where the differences are big. Lewis likes to slam on the throttle but without the stability he hesitates more and that applies in the high speed corners as well.

I can see the 2026 regs fixing a lot of the struggles Lewis has had since 2022 because they won't be so reliant on GE.

I doubt there is a driver on the grid who wouldn't like to be able to just slam on the throttle out of corners without worrying about it..

Vettel had multiple spins at Ferrari because he was so used to that very thing coming from the superior RB cars

[atanatizante]

Both drivers didn't improve in Q3 due to various reasons, but even if we take into account their mistakes, we could not explain why the car was suddenly unbalanced in the high-speed section T12-T14, as we could see below:



LEC said after qualy that there`s an unspecified issue with the car and the formulapassion.it has a theory that this issue is related to the fuel pump and the low fuel level needed just for one hot lap only in Q3:



Another issue is the ground clearance between the car fitted with intermediate tyres and dry tyres, where we could see how much the car is raising, thus losing so much DF ... it seems that SF25 has a very narrow aeromap/ride height where the DF is optimal and maybe they nailed it here on a dry and smooth track but when is come to a wet/damp track the car is suddenly out of this optimal DF window:

[woocasz]

Leclerc:
"There's something more in the car, I never talked about it and, believe me, it's better I don't talk about it. Let's hope the solution will come soon"

Vasseur:
"I think I know what he's talking about, but we're keeping it to ourselves."



the question is, what works in this car at all?
(probably its so embarrassing, they dont want to talk about it.)

[Spoutnik]

Lewis did a very good job at overtaking yesterday despite the car. His moves on Russell & Ocon + Gasly were impressive

I have to say the big question mark for me is : can this car win a race this year ?

[Spoutnik]

Lewis did a very good job at overtaking yesterday despite the car. His moves on Russell & Ocon + Gasly were impressive

I have to say the big question mark for me is : can this car win a race this year ?

[El_KaPpa]

Lecler got lost in his own mistakes and radio drama while Hamilton showed what driving under pressure actually looks like.

[catent]

Lecler got lost in his own mistakes and radio drama while Hamilton showed what driving under pressure actually looks like.

What specific Leclerc "radio drama" are you referring to? Him beating himself up for not turning in a better Q3 lap? If he was silent and content with a poor lap, I have little doubt some would be criticizing him for that, too.

Leclerc has (for the better part of 2+ years now) demonstrated incredible consistency, race-pace, tire management, strong driving under pressure, impressive racecraft, wheel-to-wheel proficiency, etc; by nearly every measure, objective and subjective, Leclerc has been a top-2 or top-3 driver on the F1 grid over the past 18 or so months. He has a single rough weekend and people say nonsense like this.

Hamilton fans coming out of the woodwork following a single weekend of outperforming his teammate, to trash, tarnish, and badmouth his teammate, are giving themselves a bad, bad look. Can people express support for Hamilton without implicitly or explicitly trashing his teammate? Is that something Hamilton supporters are capable of?

The amount of self-awareness one must lack in order to make such a comment, after 10+ weeks of Leclerc outperforming Hamilton (rather handily), is shocking.

I mean all this with absolutely zero disrespect/shade towards Hamilton; he is a great racecar driver and I have a ton of respect for him (much more than I have for many of his fans).

How does the saying go ... ? Lewis Hamilton does not make Lewis Hamilton unlikable, but his fans sure do.

[Luscion]

Lecler got lost in his own mistakes and radio drama while Hamilton showed what driving under pressure actually looks like.

Hamilton fans coming out of the woodwork following a single weekend of outperforming his teammate, to trash, tarnish, and badmouth his teammate, are giving themselves a bad, bad look. Can people express support for Hamilton without implicitly or explicitly trashing his teammate? Is that something Hamilton supporters are capable of?

The amount of self-awareness one must lack in order to make such a comment, after 10+ weeks of Leclerc outperforming Hamilton (rather handily), is shocking.

I mean all this with absolutely zero disrespect/shade towards Hamilton; he is a great racecar driver and I have a ton of respect for him (much more than I have for many of his fans).

How does the saying go ... ? Lewis Hamilton does not make Lewis Hamilton unlikable, but his fans sure do.

im looking through this thread since the race started yesterday and only one person has done this, dont know why your turning it into something its not

[ScuderiaLeo]

Leclerc:
"There's something more in the car, I never talked about it and, believe me, it's better I don't talk about it. Let's hope the solution will come soon"

Vasseur:
"I think I know what he's talking about, but we're keeping it to ourselves."



the question is, what works in this car at all?
(probably its so embarrassing, they dont want to talk about it.)

It must be about the engine or something similar (like someone else posted above) That's the only thing I can think of that they haven't talked about yet that they might want to hide.

Three weeks is a long time, I'd be shocked if AR didn't have an article out on this before the next race

[AR3-GP]

It rained at Silverstone last year. Sainz finished P6 and Leclerc was floundering somewhere outside of the points. It rained at Silverstone this year. Hamilton P4. Leclerc floundering somewhere outside of the points. Some are still blaming the car, the setup, the tires, Rueda, Xavi, Bozzi, Sainz, Binotto, the Hamilton fans, and the pope...

We are all blind to what we don't want to see. Do people actually think this is just about luck, cars, and setups now after 6 years of Leclerc doing the same **** every time that it rains? His good days when it rains are the exception. Please, enough of "Turkey 2020, Monaco 2022" arguments. Leclerc is someone who you simply cannot count on when it rains. Not the same league as Schumacher, Senna, Verstappen, Hamilton, Alonso in the wet.

Hamilton stayed calm, communicated well, understood the right times to switch tires, made smaller errors, and took a car to P4 which wasn't really fit for purpose, similar to Max behind him. It's difficult to put into words, but it's not a fluke or coincidence that this keeps happening to these drivers. It's part of why some drivers get picked up by the "right" teams, become champions multiple times, and others never do.

Hamilton showed his value in Silverstone and saved Vasseur from embarrassment in front of Elkann. Leclerc only raised more questions about himself. Of course he is very fast and can do great things in qualifying and the races but honestly he is starting to make mistakes again (Canada FP1 chassis write off, Miami Sprint warmup lap crash, Canada qualy, Silverstone, not very clever start in Austria, others that I don't recall). For me he's starting to blend into the background again with too many chinks showing in the armor.

[Cemzz]

Here is my 2 cents

first of all, just to clear this up. I love leclerc. He caught my eye in 2017 F2 series and since 2019 has been my favourite driver just infront of Alonso.

but what’s evident to me is although he has damn fast out right speed and talent to hassle the car. His race IQ I find is not that great. He can’t read a race like the Alonso’s, Verstappens and even Sainz.

In the rain he struggles to adapt to the condition, he struggles to read the conditions and even make the right calls to the pit lane on strategic situations during rainy conditions.
To me he ranks very low in the wet. I rank stroll above him in wet conditions. Remember stroll in Williams during wet qualies.
anyway that’s my 2 cents. Great guy. Very fast guy. But can’t adapt to wet conditions.