2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[venkyhere]

It's not a factory team. They survived for 20 yrs and won multiple drivers and constructors (most successful over the past 20 yrs?) , and are now spiralling into oblivion and will eventually fizzle out. They have done probably the best amongst all the non-factory F1 teams in the history of F1. It's all cyclic, typical of F1. The engineers and drivers will eventually find their place back in F1 or in other roles in automobile/aerospace industry - as is typical with any exclusive and niche industry.
The only surprise is that this is something that was anticipated at the start of 2024, and when it didn't happen, it was taken for granted that it wouldn't happen like it has happened now. IMHO, the engineering talent would've been intact and primed for the next cycle, had it happened in 2024 itself - now the technical leadership is scattered and hence the entire technical workforce will scatter.

[franbatista123]

Newey left because of Horner, why is Christian seen as the person who kept the ship on course. He was the one that has led to its downfall.

To be fair I don't think anyone knows exactly why Newey left other than him and perhaps a few close to him. I've seen a lot speculate either way and neither really has much weight. We've had PR leaks against him but again they can be misleading particularly when they came out was it trying to destabilise Horner? Was it a leak from the Austrian side of RB, Or Newey himself? I see a lot of Newey supporters point to his statement when he left RBR but again its just as likely some good PR about breaking their contract and negotiation of gardening leave to point CH in a good light at the time, seen that kinda thing done before. I can seen plenaty of reason he could have left both with and without Horner

“Adrian Newey, regarded as the greatest designer in F1 history, resigned last year.
The accusations against Horner were a central part of Newey's reasons for leaving, along with his dissatisfaction with the team, which he saw as other staff members trying to claim credit for his innovations.”


When the BBC reports this, I give it weight. Given the fact that Newey’s wife was reacting with disapproval over statements from Horner about Newey’s credit to their success, I think there’s fire where there’s smoke.

Newey's wife is not exactly an unbiased party, but to be honest there's so much smoke in this whole situation that it's hard to pinpoint what truly happened.

[avantman]

I think that now Mintzlaff can persuade Yoovidhya to sell the team to Porsche

It took Niki Lauda a good amount of convincing of their 2014 project to bring Hamilton to Mercedes. I don't know who can persuade Max into joining Mercedes based on a theory that they have the best engine like Lauda did.

ahahhaha, that nonsense again!! this is getting ridiculous
Lauda did virtually nothing meaningful. Ross chased Hamilton and held all important and meaninful negotiations.

[AeroDynamic]

To be fair I don't think anyone knows exactly why Newey left other than him and perhaps a few close to him. I've seen a lot speculate either way and neither really has much weight. We've had PR leaks against him but again they can be misleading particularly when they came out was it trying to destabilise Horner? Was it a leak from the Austrian side of RB, Or Newey himself? I see a lot of Newey supporters point to his statement when he left RBR but again its just as likely some good PR about breaking their contract and negotiation of gardening leave to point CH in a good light at the time, seen that kinda thing done before. I can seen plenaty of reason he could have left both with and without Horner

“Adrian Newey, regarded as the greatest designer in F1 history, resigned last year.
The accusations against Horner were a central part of Newey's reasons for leaving, along with his dissatisfaction with the team, which he saw as other staff members trying to claim credit for his innovations.”


When the BBC reports this, I give it weight. Given the fact that Newey’s wife was reacting with disapproval over statements from Horner about Newey’s credit to their success, I think there’s fire where there’s smoke.

Newey's wife is not exactly an unbiased party, but to be honest there's so much smoke in this whole situation that it's hard to pinpoint what truly happened.

When people leave left right and center, and some of them want out of their contracts, that means something happened and all of it points to Horner, the only one that actually got fired.

Jos called it a year in advance of it happening. If he pointed at Horner with such vitriol, there’s no where else to look. Why would a bunch of people want to leave early and abruptly just when they’re beginning to enjoy being at the top?

[Dee]

“Adrian Newey, regarded as the greatest designer in F1 history, resigned last year.
The accusations against Horner were a central part of Newey's reasons for leaving, along with his dissatisfaction with the team, which he saw as other staff members trying to claim credit for his innovations.”


When the BBC reports this, I give it weight. Given the fact that Newey’s wife was reacting with disapproval over statements from Horner about Newey’s credit to their success, I think there’s fire where there’s smoke.

Newey's wife is not exactly an unbiased party, but to be honest there's so much smoke in this whole situation that it's hard to pinpoint what truly happened.

When people leave left right and center, and some of them want out of their contracts, that means something happened and all of it points to Horner, the only one that actually got fired.

Bingo

[Big Tea]

I see this as the beginning of the end for Red Bull Racing F1. It is mostly Horner who has kept the ship on course, despite what others have sad about him.
There will be a scurry of people waving money wanting just this part or just that part and seemingly no one to tell them to sod off just hands taking what is on offer.
It is too fragmented to be handled in a boardroom of people of differing interest, but many just wanting a quick buck and some fame.
Had Newie stayed as a focus, and some of those recently departed, it may continue, but now I see it as a fire sale

Newey left because of Horner, why is Christian seen as the person who kept the ship on course. He was the one that has led to its downfall.

If Newey had stayed it would be a different case. Now all 3 (or 5 even) people who could have been leaders are no longer there. It has gone from so many leaders to more or less no leaders. There are many streams below this level who have different agendas and no one wit the power to restrain them.

[MJIM]

Interesting that he's still going to be employed by red bull, I wonder in what capacity.

[basti313]

Interesting that he's still going to be employed by red bull, I wonder in what capacity.

Well, he is anyways on the payroll.

He is a good manager, they just sack him for the team falling apart, to make a new start and to save what is left.
The team will in any case need a complete restart. With a manager, who can sign an engine deal with Merc andre contract with Russel.

[vorticism]

I don't know why everyone thinks Horner was and has been core to the success of the team.

Surely it has been Mateschitz (2005)/Marko (2005)/Newey (2006)/Marshall(2006) with Horner (2005) as the CEO

...

Early 2022 - 50% RBR to be sold to Porsche under guidance of Mateschitz. Marko, Newey, Marshall and Verstappen's support this.

Late 2022 - Due to power vacuum due to Mateschitz I'll health, Horner pulls out of the deal in September (Mateschitz dies in October) and signs with Ford, Its also reported that he wants to buy RBPT with the backing of a British consortium. He also poaches engine talent from Mercedes for RBPT. Now he is also in control of driving talent.

...

2023 to early 2024 - Intervention from Newey/Marko/Verstappens/Austrian RB to get rid of Horner for the doublecross and also wanting to get rid of Marko but Horner gets support from the Thai's. Max then steps in to make sure Marko is not fired.

...

Is it certain that it was Horner alone, or primarily, who stymied the Porsche deal? It would be good to know what Newey thought of it. How much power does this assessment imply that Horner had within RBR? A realistic or unrealistic amount?

What did you make of the loss of Honda and creation of RBPT?

[FrukostScones]

Red Bull is surely gonna sell the F1 team to Porsche/Saudis. *or Mintzlaff just being incompetent
I mean now it is doomed. Horner was not very likable ( professional liar and ***ker) but still the face of successful RB to me.
If this is a Verstappen/Marko plot I hope they gonna enjoy 2026 : )
But I really hope Verstappen leaves to Mercedes though, would be fun to watch. Cringy but funny. still WDC 2026 guaranteed.

[Macklaren]

Guys, Porsche is absolutely struggling with the car business with tariffs and other issues as is VW. with all the money already sunk into Audi, Porsche is definitely not buying RBR

[pantherxxx]

The whole thing shows that Horner was loved and respected at Red Bull and was considered a good team boss by his own staff. That's why I don't think it was a good decision to sack him. Mekies is no better at team management than Horner. The new wind tunnel will arrive and they will be able to build a competitive car again, but it will not happen any sooner just because Horner has been replaced. And then, when the new wind tunnel might make Red Bull good again, the ‘experts’ will of course immediately declare that Horner's sacking was the key.

[balex]

My point is that I dont think Horner has himself been an important factor in Red Bull's success over all this time since initially helping to build up the team. Heck, it's not even uncommon in business for some exec to come in specifically with the aim of helping build up or restructure a company and then moving on to some other company after it's been achieved. There's still kudos to building up something great. But it seems an awful lot like Horner was simply along for the ride for most of this time since and that maybe his specific role as TP for Red Bull does not really merit all the praise, versus the more important people(or maybe even person...) who actually made Horner look good.

We know what your point is. The problem is there’s zero basis for it.

How would you even know you were wrong? Let alone right?

It's certainly impossible to know either way. That is very much just my speculation, based on how incredibly successful Adrian Newey has been elsewhere, and how fast things fell apart for Red Bull after he left. I've long felt that Newey was the important person at Red Bull creating their lasting success. Not Horner, outside of simply listening to and letting Newey do his thing. And it seems like as soon as he did stop listening to Newey, things started going bad and in part led to him leaving.

The lack of self-awareness it takes to write this after calling my logic lousy is truly ground-breaking

[RAF]

I know a lot was made about Newey leaving because of Horner. But I believe part of it was he wanted a share in a team such as why he left Williams & McLaren, something only Stroll could offer.

[r85]

I think that now Mintzlaff can persuade Yoovidhya to sell the team to Porsche

It took Niki Lauda a good amount of convincing of their 2014 project to bring Hamilton to Mercedes. I don't know who can persuade Max into joining Mercedes based on a theory that they have the best engine like Lauda did.

ahahhaha, that nonsense again!! this is getting ridiculous
Lauda did virtually nothing meaningful. Ross chased Hamilton and held all important and meaninful negotiations.

Well you got me there
The point still stands that Max needs to be absolutely convinced that it's worth switching to Mercedes next year. But it's getting more certain at the moment that he's staying at Red Bull next year to see who's competitive and who's not.