2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Emag
Emag
114
Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

ScuderiaLeo wrote:
01 Aug 2025, 22:07
mika vs michael wrote:
01 Aug 2025, 20:58
Ferrari of the mighty years would have gone for Adrian Newey and then Max Verstappen, not Fred Vasseur and LH. But now the team is not interested in winning championships...Last championship was 17 years ago...the 21 years gap is approaching.
How would having Verstappen solve any of Ferrari's problems? #-o
If you had current-era Verstappen driving for Ferrari in 2017 & 2018, then maybe I can see his point, but there is literally no driver in the current grid who could have won a wdc with Ferrari these last couple of years.
Developer of F1InsightsHub

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
6
Joined: 20 Feb 2019, 20:12

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Emag wrote:
01 Aug 2025, 23:26
ScuderiaLeo wrote:
01 Aug 2025, 22:07
mika vs michael wrote:
01 Aug 2025, 20:58
Ferrari of the mighty years would have gone for Adrian Newey and then Max Verstappen, not Fred Vasseur and LH. But now the team is not interested in winning championships...Last championship was 17 years ago...the 21 years gap is approaching.
How would having Verstappen solve any of Ferrari's problems? #-o
If you had current-era Verstappen driving for Ferrari in 2017 & 2018, then maybe I can see his point, but there is literally no driver in the current grid who could have won a wdc with Ferrari these last couple of years.
Verstappen likely could have won in 2022 at Ferrari if we consider that Verstappen wouldn't have been driving for Red Bull.

Either way, Ferrari have tried to attract Newey multiple times. And while I do wish Ferrari would have essentially given him the keys to the castle to get him onboard, I also understand why it's a harder sell coming into an Italian team based in Italy than other choices.

Wynters
Wynters
6
Joined: 15 May 2016, 14:49

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Seanspeed wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 00:26
Verstappen likely could have won in 2022 at Ferrari if we consider that Verstappen wouldn't have been driving for Red Bull.
In that case, the number 1 driver at RBR would've been any of the other top ten drivers on the grid and they, like Verstappen, would've won with comedic ease. You could design the perfect driver and put him in the Ferrari that year and they aren't getting within a sniff of whoever the number one RBR driver is. Ferrari finished more than 200 points behind.
2007 - Beats 2005 & 2006 WDC Alonso. 1-0
2008-09 - Beats Kovalainen. 2-0
2010-12 - Beats 2009 WDC Button. 2-1
2013-16 - Beats 2016 WDC Rosberg. 3-1
2017-21 - Beats Bottas. 5-0
2022-24 - Loses to Russell. 1-2 (but outscores him)
2025-?? - Leclerc. TBC
Just the car???

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
6
Joined: 20 Feb 2019, 20:12

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Wynters wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 00:42
Seanspeed wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 00:26
Verstappen likely could have won in 2022 at Ferrari if we consider that Verstappen wouldn't have been driving for Red Bull.
In that case, the number 1 driver at RBR would've been any of the other top ten drivers on the grid and they, like Verstappen, would've won with comedic ease. You could design the perfect driver and put him in the Ferrari that year and they aren't getting within a sniff of whoever the number one RBR driver is. Ferrari finished more than 200 points behind.
Perez only finished 3rd in the WDC that season. If it was truly just all car, that wouldn't have happened. I know it's popular to look down at Perez nowadays, but people forget he was well rated before he got smacked around by Verstappen.

Granted, if you potentially put another great driver in that car instead like Lewis or Russell or something, maybe Red Bull still win out, sure. Not saying the Red Bull wasn't a better car, it obviously was. And I'm not saying Max is some quantum leap better than Leclerc. More just talking about this total hypothetical where Max is in a Ferrari, and therefore not in the Red Bull. I do think Max might well have made enough difference to win in that situation against a weaker Red Bull rival. Not guaranteed, but I've never seen a driver get the most out of a car so consistently since Schumacher.

Mosin123
Mosin123
0
Joined: 11 Oct 2022, 17:03

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Seanspeed wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 00:48
Wynters wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 00:42
Seanspeed wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 00:26
Verstappen likely could have won in 2022 at Ferrari if we consider that Verstappen wouldn't have been driving for Red Bull.
In that case, the number 1 driver at RBR would've been any of the other top ten drivers on the grid and they, like Verstappen, would've won with comedic ease. You could design the perfect driver and put him in the Ferrari that year and they aren't getting within a sniff of whoever the number one RBR driver is. Ferrari finished more than 200 points behind.
Perez only finished 3rd in the WDC that season. If it was truly just all car, that wouldn't have happened. I know it's popular to look down at Perez nowadays, but people forget he was well rated before he got smacked around by Verstappen.

Granted, if you potentially put another great driver in that car instead like Lewis or Russell or something, maybe Red Bull still win out, sure. Not saying the Red Bull wasn't a better car, it obviously was. And I'm not saying Max is some quantum leap better than Leclerc. More just talking about this total hypothetical where Max is in a Ferrari, and therefore not in the Red Bull. I do think Max might well have made enough difference to win in that situation against a weaker Red Bull rival. Not guaranteed, but I've never seen a driver get the most out of a car so consistently since Schumacher.
The Redbull was built to get the most out of Max, was designed to get the most out of Max, Perez was always closer to Max at the season start, as the car moved more to Max's style, the gap got bigger. I dont think a driver has had that type of treatment since Schumacher.... all teams but 1, now aim to build the best car, which is why every young driver seems to effortlessly jump into them but at 1 team, Redbull.

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
6
Joined: 20 Feb 2019, 20:12

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Mosin123 wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 01:04
The Redbull was built to get the most out of Max, was designed to get the most out of Max
That's just never how it works.

The Red Bull was built to simply be as good a car as they could make it.

It's crazy to me that people still think it's possible to design cars around a specific driver's preferences. Remember that in the grand scheme of things, most all drivers want similar things. A strong front end, a stable rear end, neutral handling, a powerful engine with great driveability, etc. Actual driver preferences that differ from each other are tiny little differences in relative terms.

And if it were possible to accurately cater to these tiny little differences, you wouldn't need a top driver to win cuz you'd be the most amazing technical department ever.

It's like all the people who keep arguing the reason that Perez/Lawson/Tsunoda have struggled is cuz the Red Bull has been developed around Max's preferences, even though Max has been extremely vocal he does NOT like the 24-25 cars' characteristics.

Max is simply that good. Max is not benefiting from a team building cars to his liking, he's simply one of the best drivers of all-time.

Emag
Emag
114
Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Seanspeed wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 00:26
Emag wrote:
01 Aug 2025, 23:26
ScuderiaLeo wrote:
01 Aug 2025, 22:07


How would having Verstappen solve any of Ferrari's problems? #-o
If you had current-era Verstappen driving for Ferrari in 2017 & 2018, then maybe I can see his point, but there is literally no driver in the current grid who could have won a wdc with Ferrari these last couple of years.
Verstappen likely could have won in 2022 at Ferrari if we consider that Verstappen wouldn't have been driving for Red Bull.

Either way, Ferrari have tried to attract Newey multiple times. And while I do wish Ferrari would have essentially given him the keys to the castle to get him onboard, I also understand why it's a harder sell coming into an Italian team based in Italy than other choices.
I personally always measure a car’s level of pace based on the results of the best driver. The best of RedBull finished way ahead the best of Ferrari in 2022 and, especially in the second half, there was barely any contest.

If Verstappen wasn’t driving for RedBull, they would have had another first driver where they would have focused all their efforts and if you assume that other driver would get the best out of RedBull, then no, Max would not be able to win the championship in 2022 neither.

It’s not like Perez finished far from Leclerc in 2022 too, in fact I am pretty sure I saw a post somewhere back then which showed the championship without Verstappen, and Perez turns out to be the wdc in that scenario.
Developer of F1InsightsHub

dialtone
dialtone
123
Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Seanspeed wrote:
It's crazy to me that people still think it's possible to design cars around a specific driver's preferences. Remember that in the grand scheme of things, most all drivers want similar things. A strong front end, a stable rear end, neutral handling, a powerful engine with great driveability, etc. Actual driver preferences that differ from each other are tiny little differences in relative terms.
That can’t be entirely true.

Albon talked about how sensitive the steering was in RedBull and how he wasn’t used to it.

Sainz performance in the Ferrari was always very dependent on how pointy the car was.

The style that LEC uses to corner isn’t a style that HAM is comfortable with, at least not yet.

While the team certainly doesn’t design the car with precisely the behavior that fits one driver or the other, they certainly prioritize what to work on based on driver feedback and data. If one driver complains about brakes being bad and the other has the best braking on the grid, the team won’t work on fixing braking, they’ll call a coach to help out your braking technique.

User avatar
deadhead
70
Joined: 08 Apr 2022, 20:24

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Wynters wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 00:42
Seanspeed wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 00:26
Verstappen likely could have won in 2022 at Ferrari if we consider that Verstappen wouldn't have been driving for Red Bull.
In that case, the number 1 driver at RBR would've been any of the other top ten drivers on the grid and they, like Verstappen, would've won with comedic ease. You could design the perfect driver and put him in the Ferrari that year and they aren't getting within a sniff of whoever the number one RBR driver is. Ferrari finished more than 200 points behind.
You are absolutely right.

Most people can’t quite grasp that this sport is mostly about the car and less about the driver.

woocasz
woocasz
0
Joined: 24 Feb 2022, 18:04

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Seanspeed wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 00:26
Emag wrote:
01 Aug 2025, 23:26
ScuderiaLeo wrote:
01 Aug 2025, 22:07


How would having Verstappen solve any of Ferrari's problems? #-o
If you had current-era Verstappen driving for Ferrari in 2017 & 2018, then maybe I can see his point, but there is literally no driver in the current grid who could have won a wdc with Ferrari these last couple of years.
Verstappen likely could have won in 2022 at Ferrari if we consider that Verstappen wouldn't have been driving for Red Bull.

Either way, Ferrari have tried to attract Newey multiple times. And while I do wish Ferrari would have essentially given him the keys to the castle to get him onboard, I also understand why it's a harder sell coming into an Italian team based in Italy than other choices.
Are you saying that Max, driving for Ferrari in 2022, would win the championship? What if we swapped drivers and Leclerc drove for Red Bull that year? Would you still think Max would win the championship? :lol:

You forgot about td39,

besides, Leclerc lost huuuuge amount of points due to tragic pit wall decisions.

those clown memes they did not appear out of nowhere :lol:

I understand that you can be a fan of a particular driver, but there is such a thing as common sense.

User avatar
Chuckjr
37
Joined: 24 Feb 2012, 08:34
Location: USA

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

woocasz wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 10:44

but there is such a thing as common sense.
:lol: You won't find that in this thread, friend.
Watching F1 since 1986.

Mosin123
Mosin123
0
Joined: 11 Oct 2022, 17:03

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Seanspeed wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 02:29
Mosin123 wrote:
02 Aug 2025, 01:04
The Redbull was built to get the most out of Max, was designed to get the most out of Max
That's just never how it works.

The Red Bull was built to simply be as good a car as they could make it.

It's crazy to me that people still think it's possible to design cars around a specific driver's preferences. Remember that in the grand scheme of things, most all drivers want similar things. A strong front end, a stable rear end, neutral handling, a powerful engine with great driveability, etc. Actual driver preferences that differ from each other are tiny little differences in relative terms.

And if it were possible to accurately cater to these tiny little differences, you wouldn't need a top driver to win cuz you'd be the most amazing technical department ever.

It's like all the people who keep arguing the reason that Perez/Lawson/Tsunoda have struggled is cuz the Red Bull has been developed around Max's preferences, even though Max has been extremely vocal he does NOT like the 24-25 cars' characteristics.

Max is simply that good. Max is not benefiting from a team building cars to his liking, he's simply one of the best drivers of all-time.
Ofc he is, who am i to say he isnt, its not like he had the best car on the grid to win in, its like he has now lost all his talent so Lando and Oscar are now the greatest two drivers of all time because they now have the keys to the fastest car on the grid no, no, no, no, that cant possibly be it. Max is just generally that much better than every one else if he turned up in a morris minor today he would put it on pole..... And no body, absolotly nobody can match him...... legend.. :roll:

Riccardo was quite vocal when he left Redbull that one of the reasons he left was because they was dedicating most effort on Max, Max has been very vocal how he likes his car, Its the only car on the grid that behaves the way it does, and you honestly think its because thats the best way to design the fastest car? even though Mclaren is much better than the Redbull and is the most balanced car on the grid?

You dont think the teams engineers are able to design a car that behaves a certain way? with certain characteristic?

You dont think they can design a car to suit a drivers style?

Go ask ( Google ) Kimi why he wouldnt like Romains 2012 -2013 Lotus, and Ask ( Google ) Romain why he wouldnt like Kimis 2012 - 2013 lotus even though they was the same car in the same team, they was optimised very differently to each other.

Sevach
Sevach
1089
Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Leclerc well adjusted and performing well with the new suspension, but Mclaren is just unreal around Hungaroring.

Fakepivot
Fakepivot
1
Joined: 13 Jul 2023, 10:19

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

humm again charles .399 sec down to the orange rocket ships.. surpriced about merc and redbull, hope they are not sandbagging

User avatar
deadhead
70
Joined: 08 Apr 2022, 20:24

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

VER will certainly find more time in qualifying but I thibk it might just be too hot for the Mercedes today