2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

The higher tire PSI could impact low-speed performance, yes. It is a possibility the team increased tire PSI, and if they did, they likely did so in order to err on the side of caution when it came to plank wear. But it also seems unlikely that the tire PSI increase explains ALL of Leclerc's drop in pace.

This 'either-or' notion that some hold, where this is entirely explained by plank wear, and nothing else, is reductive and unrealistically limiting the scope of this discussion about what may have occurred.

It is absolutely possible - if not highly likely at this point - that Leclerc was dealing with reduced performance due to increased tire PSI (to err on the side of caution re: plank wear), AND experienced a chassis issue that tanked his pace more than just the tire PSI adjustments alone. The fact Vasseur said the team was considering retiring the car basically confirms that this was more than just tire PSI / plank wear concerns.

The fact that the team may have been monitoring/managing plank wear via tire PSI, does not preclude the existence of a chassis issue, and vice-versa.

Are you replying to me? If so, I speculated that chassis damage was the result of excessive bottoming which they were trying to mitigate in the 1st stint (engine modes) and 2nd stint (Leclerc reported that he can feel a change from the pitstop on lap 23 and then said they lose the podium on lap 27, long before the pace fully collapsed). I think the chassis damage is connected to the plank wear.

[PlatinumZealot]

If Ferrari had plank issues, then Charles would not be taking high speed corners the way he did even in that 3rd stint. The issues at low speed corners clearly indicate another issue - maybe the tyre pressures increasing put the car totally out of the window there but I guess we will never know.

It's wearing of the Plank. Not "do not touch the plank." of course he's gonna take high speed corners as fast as he can while he can.

[Emag]

Not really relevant to the current conversation, but I have been reading the thread lately and just wanted to make a comment on some things I noticed being said consistently.

I think diehard Ferrari fans don’t want to admit this, but Carlos was probably the best nr 2 driver Ferrari has had in ages. Him together with Charles was arguably a much better pairing than Chatles and Lewis currently (could be proven wrong next year). It’s honestly a bit of a scapegoat mentality that Italian media and Ferrari fanatics come up with these weird ideas that somehow Carlos is actually to blame somewhat for the poor performance this year because apparently he said something about the power steering last year that Ferrari took into consideration?? From a driver leaving the team? Just total nonsense.

Carlos was a really talented driver that had the missfortune of being paired up against arguably the joint-best (second best at worst) talented driver of the modern era together with Verstappen.

Ferrari fans like to point out Baku last year as the reason for Ferrari losing the WCC but its just the nature of the sport. Many what ifs develop throughout the season.

The truth is that Carlos was really really close to Charles (relatively speaking), and you could often count on him to pick up the pieces when Charles had a rare off day.

[Sergej]

From Duchessa and AR... note that this can be considered "preliminary info" since it's published right after the weekend and there hasn't been much time to examine things. They'll probably update it if they learn more specifics over the break.

bwoah, classic PR management from AR here...."setup still to be refined", "potential to be extracted"....maybe in Abu Dhabi they will be able to extract this mythological potential

also, I don't get the last sentence "after all, the front suspension cannot be altered." front suspension ? they always said that the change in the front suspension has been flawless, why is it becoming a factor now ?

Why do fans of others teams show up for no other reason than to throw dirt on individuals sharing information about the Ferrari team?

Can you imagine if I rocked up in a RBR thread talking about the inherent bias of Dutch reporters, claiming their information is bunk, and that they are the team's propaganda arm? It would be a terrible, ugly look, would not be well-received, and I would be entirely out of my lane, commenting on something I am relatively uninformed about.

This is a Ferrari thread, with fans of the team sharing information to discuss. When someone shows up expressly to trash the information being shared, undermine its credibility, make bombastic statements, and add nothing of value to the discussion, that is toxic.

Said that I am not a fan of any other team, at least of another driver, it would be very welcome if you show up in another team thread and share your different opinions, that would stimulate a frank discussion over topics, against usual fairytale telling mood of fans, which unfortunately is very common among Ferrari fans and fueled by Italian press (I say this as Italian, I know my chickens).

[Seanspeed]

Not really relevant to the current conversation, but I have been reading the thread lately and just wanted to make a comment on some things I noticed being said consistently.

I think diehard Ferrari fans don’t want to admit this, but Carlos was probably the best nr 2 driver Ferrari has had in ages. Him together with Charles was arguably a much better pairing than Chatles and Lewis currently (could be proven wrong next year). It’s honestly a bit of a scapegoat mentality that Italian media and Ferrari fanatics come up with these weird ideas that somehow Carlos is actually to blame somewhat for the poor performance this year because apparently he said something about the power steering last year that Ferrari took into consideration?? From a driver leaving the team? Just total nonsense.

Carlos was a really talented driver that had the missfortune of being paired up against arguably the joint-best (second best at worst) talented driver of the modern era together with Verstappen.

Ferrari fans like to point out Baku last year as the reason for Ferrari losing the WCC but its just the nature of the sport. Many what ifs develop throughout the season.

The truth is that Carlos was really really close to Charles (relatively speaking), and you could often count on him to pick up the pieces when Charles had a rare off day.

This idea of blaming Carlos is honestly some tiny niche thing, not a mainstream opinion. I've seen very, very few people actually pushing this.

And I also think saying Leclerc-Sainz was probably our best pairing in a very long time would be a downright popular opinion among Ferrari fans. Sainz was obviously not amazing and had periods of underperforming that frustrated us, but he was quite frequently a strong point of the team, and also had a nasty habit of having a great weekend specifically in situations where Leclerc was dealing with some unfortunate circumstances which of course annoyed many of Leclerc's more diehard fans.

But I think among just general Ferrari fans, Sainz was pretty well appreciated, and not just in hindsight. Many people did not think Lewis would be some slam-dunk upgrade.

[Seanspeed]

Said that I am not a fan of any other team, at least of another driver, it would be very welcome if you show up in another team thread and share your different opinions, that would stimulate a frank discussion over topics, against usual fairytale telling mood of fans, which unfortunately is very common among Ferrari fans and fueled by Italian press (I say this as Italian, I know my chickens).

You're fine man. This isn't a fan topic, this is a topic to talk about Ferrari, and you dont need some badge to input your opinion.

Also, vast majority of us are not so sensitive like that at all and we are very well used to pessimism. lol Dont listen to anybody who says you have to be endlessly optimistic to be a fan. Ferrari fans who think like that must drive themselves crazy.

[ScuderiaLeo]

This idea of blaming Carlos is honestly some tiny niche thing, not a mainstream opinion. I've seen very, very few people actually pushing this.

And I also think saying Leclerc-Sainz was probably our best pairing in a very long time would be a downright popular opinion among Ferrari fans. Sainz was obviously not amazing and had periods of underperforming that frustrated us, but he was quite frequently a strong point of the team, and also had a nasty habit of having a great weekend specifically in situations where Leclerc was dealing with some unfortunate circumstances which of course annoyed many of Leclerc's more diehard fans.

But I think among just general Ferrari fans, Sainz was pretty well appreciated, and not just in hindsight. Many people did not think Lewis would be some slam-dunk upgrade.

I can only speak about my local Scuderia Ferrari club(which has over 4k members last time I checked) but Sainz was very well liked and the general reaction when it was announced he was leaving was "that sucks", not "Yay!"

That doesn't mean they weren't happy to have Hamilton or that they didn't like Leclerc more, both are true. But I also don't know anyone who legitimately disliked Sainz IRL, that seems like an online only thing. It doesn't reflect the average Tifosi that I know of.

but I'm not European, maybe it's different over there

There was some negativity toward Sainz in 2022, especially after Silverstone because of how the team handled the race. But that isn't Sainz's fault and after the break people just forgot about it. I only see it brought up by Leclerc and Sainz's own fans now.

About the press, I don't agree that the Italian media blindly supports Ferrari or the drivers. At least this season, their coverage has been pretty negative and harsh toward them. Of course every journalist is different, but the fact the Italian motorsport journalist association had to put out a press release asking Italian journalists to stop spreading unfounded rumors about Ferrari says a lot. I have some suspicion it's because Vasseur is less open to the media compared to some past Ferrari TPs, many journalists don't like him and feel that Vasseur is ungrateful for their support.

[dialtone]

But I think among just general Ferrari fans, Sainz was pretty well appreciated, and not just in hindsight. Many people did not think Lewis would be some slam-dunk upgrade.

Sainz was good, but I will never appreciate fully a driver that would rather ruin his team mate race, or thatr aces his team mate harder than he races rivals. Sainz just about always prioritized himself over the betterment of the team, and for that reason I’d rather he be on some other team.

[ScuderiaLeo]

Sainz was good, but I will never appreciate fully a driver that would rather ruin his team mate race, or thatr aces his team mate harder than he races rivals. Sainz just about always prioritized himself over the betterment of the team, and for that reason I’d rather he be on some other team.

I can't think of many cases where a driver would prioritize the team over themselves if a win or podium is on the line. Even Leclerc was upset in Vegas because he felt like the team cost him a podium over Sainz, he wasn't exactly jumping for joy just because the team got good points.

Leclerc and Sainz only crashed once in four years right? That's not bad at all.

I don't have a strong opinion good or bad on Sainz, but a lot of things people blame him for seem to be the team's mismanagement on not Sainz's own fault (for example Silverstone 22.)

[TimW]

(From f1pace.com)

Leclerc's initial pace in the 3rd stint was not even that bad, but degradation is huge.

The supposed 2 second drop in pace is comparing to Piastri, who clearly had pace at hand once released in free air.

And remember that these cars are extremely sensitive to small setup changes.

[dialtone]

(From f1pace.com)

Leclerc's initial pace in the 3rd stint was not even that bad, but degradation is huge.

The supposed 2 second drop in pace is comparing to Piastri, who clearly had pace at hand once released in free air.

And remember that these cars are extremely sensitive to small setup changes.

He posted that article on reddit as well, and explained the methodology. There’s lots of holes in the way he applied his model.

[TimW]

https://f1pace.com/p/2025-hungarian-gp- ... zos_2.webp
(From f1pace.com)

Leclerc's initial pace in the 3rd stint was not even that bad, but degradation is huge.

The supposed 2 second drop in pace is comparing to Piastri, who clearly had pace at hand once released in free air.

And remember that these cars are extremely sensitive to small setup changes.

He posted that article on reddit as well, and explained the methodology. There’s lots of holes in the way he applied his model.

This plot shows the raw lap times, no model involved.

Of course there could be chassis damage, fuel saving or other factors. But since the trend is 100% linear, that suggests degradation and nothing else. Chassis damage with a linear trend is extremely unlikely.

Higher tire pressure, smaller contact patch, higher deg. Simple answers are usually correct.

[dialtone]

https://f1pace.com/p/2025-hungarian-gp- ... zos_2.webp
(From f1pace.com)

Leclerc's initial pace in the 3rd stint was not even that bad, but degradation is huge.

The supposed 2 second drop in pace is comparing to Piastri, who clearly had pace at hand once released in free air.

And remember that these cars are extremely sensitive to small setup changes.

He posted that article on reddit as well, and explained the methodology. There’s lots of holes in the way he applied his model.

This plot shows the raw lap times, no model involved.

Of course there could be chassis damage, fuel saving or other factors. But since the trend is 100% linear, that suggests degradation and nothing else. Chassis damage with a linear trend is extremely unlikely.

Higher tire pressure, smaller contact patch, higher deg. Simple answers are usually correct.

That level of degradation when the car is 2s off pace is not normal, those tires can do the whole race at that pace like they did in Monaco last year.

For the sake of discussion, with the data available it’s basically impossible to say it’s just plank wear, there are also way too many signs of it not being plank wear. Was it involved in some way? Maybe. There’s more than one thing going on here, and viewing data more in detail and not just from this high level, to me this seems to not be caused by plank wear, although there may be a contribution from it.

[f1316]

No chassis issue apparently: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10748911/

I really think that the tyre pressures are the culprit, as making the car slide and the compounding issues that has on deg, totally lines up with a car’s performance “falling off a cliff” imho.

[AR3-GP]

Since chassis damage is ruled out, I also agree with the theory. High tire pressure created a negative feedback loop with the loss of aero in the slow corners due to increased ground clearance, and the sliding would have raised the tire temperature and accelerated the tire wear. That can explain all of it. As TimW said, the first part of the stint was not that slow but the Pirelli tires are fickle. Upset them for too long and they turn to stone.