2025 McLaren F1 Team

[geogate]

My only question is why Oscar waited so long so long to pit.

Oscar had the conversation about making the mediums last long enough to go onto softs quite early in the race

I was waiting for Oscar to try the undercut and call for a pit himself around lap 42-43 for the softs, rather than the team deciding (including with Lando's blessing) that he should pit first to cover Leclerc. They both know the team is going to be fair to both of them, but on rare occasions like this, they don't seem to take that into account in their calculus.

Similar issue with Lando last year in Hungary - the team allows them to race, but he waited till the very end of the race to give the position back to Oscar, rather than giving it back early and racing him for the last 15 or so laps that were left.

but once it got that far into the race, Oscar couldnt choose to pit early as that would effectively be giving him the privilege of the lead driver. He dosnt get to have the choise of under cutting. The only way they can do that would be if they on completely different strategies, like he was 2 stopping
Sure, Lando waiting until the end at hungary was an error. I dont know what was going through his mind that made him think that was a good idea

[MYsee]

Oscar had the conversation about making the mediums last long enough to go onto softs quite early in the race

I was waiting for Oscar to try the undercut and call for a pit himself around lap 42-43 for the softs, rather than the team deciding (including with Lando's blessing) that he should pit first to cover Leclerc. They both know the team is going to be fair to both of them, but on rare occasions like this, they don't seem to take that into account in their calculus.

Similar issue with Lando last year in Hungary - the team allows them to race, but he waited till the very end of the race to give the position back to Oscar, rather than giving it back early and racing him for the last 15 or so laps that were left.

but once it got that far into the race, Oscar couldnt choose to pit early as that would effectively be giving him the privilege of the lead driver. He dosnt get to have the choise of under cutting. The only way they can do that would be if they on completely different strategies, like he was 2 stopping
Sure, Lando waiting until the end at hungary was an error. I dont know what was going through his mind that made him think that was a good idea

My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that if Oscar asked to pit Lando would simply be given the option to pit before him as the lead driver.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

lol, they were trying to protect oscars 3rd place. If they were team GB they would be happy to hold oscar out until he undercut by Leclerc, presumably. I do scratch my head at this British team british driver thing. Which particular members of the team are doing all this, cos the ones i can think of who if they that way incline, maybe, possibly, might be able to bias something, they arnt even British - so, Who are these people?

The reactions of Zac Brown have been well documented when it comes to Lando or Oscar winning. The difference is huge.

Zac Brown has known Lando since 2016, signing him as a McLaren junior in 2017. He has helped him develop into the driver he is today. There is emotional investment there that you simply don't get when you poach a driver from another team.

[venkyhere]

Oscar has said he agrees with the decision. I don't understand why some people (The Race included) are trying to make it into a controversy.

That's because the 'media' thrives on controversy and 'stories' , 'facts' are so boring.

[venkyhere]

One more thing, forgot to add in previous post :
Everyone seems to think that Lando was "being generous and kind" when he asked for Piastri to get the first priority in pitting, inorder to protect Piastri from leClerc. Actually it was a case of 'what if there is a SC just after I pit and Piastri gets a free stop? better to pit after him so that even if I don't get a lucky SC pistop, I stay ahead of him' . I find no one mention this, not even the commentary team or the various 'post race show' s.

[CjC]

What a sad display of team orders today. When they give Lando the better strategy and he wins a race, they don't rectify it. Happened a few times already this year. They are just trying to screw Piastri out of the WDC. This team...

This team…. I know, they should have just pitted Lando first, given him the 1.91 second, season beating fastest pit stop- to then duff up Oscars pit stop a lap later, allow him to be undercut by Leclerc and finish 4th, off the podium and loose 6 points to Lando instead of 3. This team….

Thats not how it works... It was just clear favoritsm of a British driver, from a British team. Totally unnecessary. They can also just train more to get their pitstops better? (if you are such a big fan). Was just sad to watch. Slow pitstops happen - they have corrected any strategy advantage they have given Lando over some races? When Piastri was ahead, and suddenly Lando is there in front, because of an alternative strategy. Just a sad display really.

It is how it works though….. no matter what Mclaren do someone, somewhere chimes up with a criticism, like I say, do you think letting Leclerc to undercut Oscar- was that the right thing to do?
Was leaving Lando on a 2 stopper and at the time a nailed on third place, maybe fourth place in Hungary the right thing to do?

Thanks for pointing out that I’m such a big fan (makes me think I might change it to ‘Just having to deal with insufferable posters on a race by race basis’)
And in being such a big fan I pointed out to you that McLaren lowered the bar for the fastest pitstop this season with their execution of Landos pitstop which is no doubt down to the intensive training they do. I’ve seen many of pit stop mistakes: Massa in Singapore, Button at Silverstone to name a couple- what me being such a big fan has to do with I don’t know- maybe you just wanted to throw that in there to mock me?

Fact of the matter is, I can’t believe the amount of criticism I’ve had to witness when Mclaren are on the cusp of back to back WCC titles.

Maybe it’s just me, when other teams were winning I didn’t feel the need to go and criticise them so I didn’t see all the salty comments from other ‘fans’, perhaps this is part and parcel of being the winning team- no one congratulates you- only criticise for not winning ‘in the right way’ or ‘hard enough’

[basti313]

My only question is why Oscar waited so long so long to pit.

Oscar had the conversation about making the mediums last long enough to go onto softs quite early in the race

Which I would call good from the point of preparation. I would expect them discussing alternate strategies and doing alternate strategies. But they did not do this. They just went with managing their intra team battle, they did not go at all for racing Max. They had no danger from behind, so putting one car on the Hard once Lec pitted would have been the thing to do. But they simply do not care.

I was waiting for Oscar to try the undercut and call for a pit himself around lap 42-43 for the softs, rather than the team deciding (including with Lando's blessing) that he should pit first to cover Leclerc.

At this point nothing basically played a role. The pace of Lec was not good enough, they still had 4-5 laps to prevent the undercut. Lec was catching Pia by not more then 0.4sec per lap with a 4 sec gap after the stop. I think the whole discussion was nonsense, I think realistically only the potential SC was the topic.

Similar issue with Lando last year in Hungary - the team allows them to race, but he waited till the very end of the race to give the position back to Oscar, rather than giving it back early and racing him for the last 15 or so laps that were left.

I think that was good. At least he had time to recover. Hungary...discussing over laps did not make sense.
I just think the point was stupid. He immediately lost DRS and never gained it back. Same with Ver by the way. Why did they let Norris through before turn 1? Ver got under pressure in T1 and Pia lost everything in the Lesmos due to the dirty air.

Fact of the matter is, I can’t believe the amount of criticism I’ve had to witness when Mclaren are on the cusp of back to back WCC titles.

Because they are not racing? Because they are lying to us and play their own game?

I mean...even Mercedes allowed them to race between the two sides of the garage. At McLaren even undercutting in a race where they just do not have any competition to fear is not allowed. They not even go for racing the leader, just drive it home. This is a joke.

[FittingMechanics]

I'm amazed that people completely misunderstand the whole situation.

This was not about the slow stop. This was not the reason Norris was given his position back. It was because Norris accepted to pit second (so Oscar is protected) with the understanding that Oscar will not undercut him. They did the same thing in Hungary, Norris was under threat, he was given priority to stop even though he was behind Oscar on track, because of that priority stop he emerged ahead of Piastri and steamed away.

If Norris pit first, had a slow stop and then Piastri went to pits and ended up ahead, there would be no swap or talk of swap.

This is their way of ensuring that team can utilize "team first" strategies of protecting the driver under threat, without the first driver being undermined. It helped them get 1-2 in Hungary 2024, it helped them get 2-3 here.

[venkyhere]

I'm amazed that people completely misunderstand the whole situation.

This was not about the slow stop. This was not the reason Norris was given his position back. It was because Norris accepted to pit second (so Oscar is protected) with the understanding that Oscar will not undercut him. They did the same thing in Hungary, Norris was under threat, he was given priority to stop even though he was behind Oscar on track, because of that priority stop he emerged ahead of Piastri and steamed away.

If Norris pit first, had a slow stop and then Piastri went to pits and ended up ahead, there would be no swap or talk of swap.

This is their way of ensuring that team can utilize "team first" strategies of protecting the driver under threat, without the first driver being undermined. It helped them get 1-2 in Hungary 2024, it helped them get 2-3 here.

Except, LeClerc was too far behind to pose an undercut threat. Norris wanted protection against Piastri getting a possible SC free pitstop, in case he pits first. Everyone (including media and Youtubers) seem to be missing this point. Norris was NOT being 'benevolent and generous towards his teammate'. Andrea Stella dressed this up as 'stopping Piastri first to protect against leClerc undercut'. Simply not the case, LeClerc was 25 seconds behind, and a 20 second pitstop would still leave a 5 second gap. Even if LeClerc was 1 second per lap faster, that would still leave 5 laps.

[CjC]

Because they are not racing? Because they are lying to us and play their own game?

I mean...even Mercedes allowed them to race between the two sides of the garage. At McLaren even undercutting in a race where they just do not have any competition to fear is not allowed. They not even go for racing the leader, just drive it home. This is a joke.

No they didn’t. The only thing I’m going to say about Mercedes in the McLaren thread is that Merc didn’t let them race- particularly through the Bottas era. He often asked for the opposite tyre at pit stops to Lewis but was relentlessly given the same as Lewis meaning more often than not he was nailed on to finish behind Lewis. Any deviation was in Lewis’ favour who would extend his stint to either give him priority in the safety car pit window, or to stop one less time or to have a huge tyre offset to attack Bottas later in the race/ stint. Lewis’ immense ability allowed him to do such things at the time but when a McLaren diver (ie. Lando) does it it’s classed as favouritism or sterile racing.

Back on topic. Your post ifs further proof of the criticism Mclaren receive. I’m replying to a member who says they are favouring Lando with a one stop strategy in Hungary then you post saying they aren’t letting them race?? I mean come on. Like i say, McLaren can’t do no right. They’ve got their act together after a decade of awfulness, surged pass Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull and it just doesn’t quite sit right with their fans and the fans of the current drivers in those 3 teams.
That’s the sad thing, not what McLaren are doing but that people can’t enjoy a race if their preference isn’t winning it.

[CjC]

I'm amazed that people completely misunderstand the whole situation.

This was not about the slow stop. This was not the reason Norris was given his position back. It was because Norris accepted to pit second (so Oscar is protected) with the understanding that Oscar will not undercut him. They did the same thing in Hungary, Norris was under threat, he was given priority to stop even though he was behind Oscar on track, because of that priority stop he emerged ahead of Piastri and steamed away.

If Norris pit first, had a slow stop and then Piastri went to pits and ended up ahead, there would be no swap or talk of swap.

This is their way of ensuring that team can utilize "team first" strategies of protecting the driver under threat, without the first driver being undermined. It helped them get 1-2 in Hungary 2024, it helped them get 2-3 here.

Except, LeClerc was too far behind to pose an undercut threat. Norris wanted protection against Piastri getting a possible SC free pitstop, in case he pits first. Everyone (including media and Youtubers) seem to be missing this point. Norris was NOT being 'benevolent and generous towards his teammate'. Andrea Stella dressed this up as 'stopping Piastri first to protect against leClerc undercut'. Simply not the case, LeClerc was 25 seconds behind, and a 20 second pitstop would still leave a 5 second gap. Even if LeClerc was 1 second per lap faster, that would still leave 5 laps.

That’s a fair point Venky, so are you suggesting that Lando took the risk to stop second- received a poor stop so should finish third? On the risk- reward basis?

On a side note didn’t Lando receive 2 duff stops in the Netherlands as well? Just they went unpunished because they were under the safety car.

[basti313]

I'm amazed that people completely misunderstand the whole situation.

...It was because Norris accepted to pit second (so Oscar is protected) with the understanding that Oscar will not undercut him. ...

All-risks insurance. You go first, I get the spot, whatever happens

Because they are not racing? Because they are lying to us and play their own game?

I mean...even Mercedes allowed them to race between the two sides of the garage. At McLaren even undercutting in a race where they just do not have any competition to fear is not allowed. They not even go for racing the leader, just drive it home. This is a joke.

No they didn’t. The only thing I’m going to say about Mercedes in the McLaren thread is that Merc didn’t let them race- particularly through the Bottas era.

Bottas was a Nr.2 and the behavior of Mercedes in seasons after 2019 was similarly poor, albeit I strongly doubt, that what you say is true to full extend.
I am obviously speaking about Ham vs. Ros. There they also had a 1sec advantage to the rest and at least allowed a more or less genuine fight.

Back on topic. Your post ifs further proof of the criticism Mclaren receive. ...
That’s the sad thing, not what McLaren are doing but that people can’t enjoy a race if their preference isn’t winning it.

Well, address the nonsense like the ideas of favoring strategy in Hun. But I am not criticizing anything that is not true. I do not really care who wins, but I hate it if they deliberately make the race a boredom festival on their end because they have the championship in the bag.

[BMMR61]

I think both sides of the argument here have lost some perspective of what was happening and what went wrong for McLaren. (I am finding I get a much better read on these races by watching the live timing then replaying the TV event the next morning - it's a very inconvenient hour down under!)

Lando had his 6.5 second lead over Oscar halved to 3.3 by the time Oscar pitted. Oscar was not in threat of being undercut (barring a terrible pitstop). It's likely to imagine he was nevertheless getting keen to get onto his new set of soft tyres as it was very late in the race. Hold on - the lead driver gets first opportunity to pit. In this current McLaren rivalry and racing guidelines strategies to undercut are not countenanced. Never mind Hungary 2025's mess up of Oscar's race.

Look, I don't think there is an out and out plan to favour Lando, that would go against the ethos, but..... Then there's OPTICS. And the optics are starting to look a little skewed towards Lando. No doubt Lando was the better driver at Monza, by a small margin, but the way skewed strategies at Hungary were allowed to flip the order on Oscar, it was PROHIBITED at Monza. It just looks a little one-sided - undercutting the lead driver isn't allowed but going to a one-stopper is.

Then there's the Oscar goodwill factor. OP just built up TWO "do me a favour cards" to play. He gave Lando a slipstream in Q2 to help his teammate escape elimination, and he gave Lando the pass. (Unlike the huge bellyaching Lando did on team radio at Hungary last year where oddly enough it was another terrible strategy blunder that allowed the anomaly.
But I want to also stress that there's far too much smoke over this. Being the leading team always makes you a target but McLaren are trying too hard to "be fair" and tripping over themselves as a result.

[venkyhere]

I'm amazed that people completely misunderstand the whole situation.

This was not about the slow stop. This was not the reason Norris was given his position back. It was because Norris accepted to pit second (so Oscar is protected) with the understanding that Oscar will not undercut him. They did the same thing in Hungary, Norris was under threat, he was given priority to stop even though he was behind Oscar on track, because of that priority stop he emerged ahead of Piastri and steamed away.

If Norris pit first, had a slow stop and then Piastri went to pits and ended up ahead, there would be no swap or talk of swap.

This is their way of ensuring that team can utilize "team first" strategies of protecting the driver under threat, without the first driver being undermined. It helped them get 1-2 in Hungary 2024, it helped them get 2-3 here.

Except, LeClerc was too far behind to pose an undercut threat. Norris wanted protection against Piastri getting a possible SC free pitstop, in case he pits first. Everyone (including media and Youtubers) seem to be missing this point. Norris was NOT being 'benevolent and generous towards his teammate'. Andrea Stella dressed this up as 'stopping Piastri first to protect against leClerc undercut'. Simply not the case, LeClerc was 25 seconds behind, and a 20 second pitstop would still leave a 5 second gap. Even if LeClerc was 1 second per lap faster, that would still leave 5 laps.

That’s a fair point Venky, so are you suggesting that Lando took the risk to stop second- received a poor stop so should finish third? On the risk- reward basis?

On a side note didn’t Lando receive 2 duff stops in the Netherlands as well? Just they went unpunished because they were under the safety car.

I am not suggesting anything. What/how McLaren do, to aid/abet/interfere/sabotage/enable/be-agnostic towards their intra-team WDC fight is between them and the drivers. I am no one to pass judgement. My only point was, the 'reason' that is being touted about for stopping Piastri first -- "concern against leClerc undercutting Piastri which was blessed/sanctioned by the benevolent Norris" -- is not true. Norris was indeed being selfish and wanted to rule out any chance of a free pitstop for Piastri in case there is a yellow flag on the very outlap that Norris exits from pits. People are not 'reading-in-between-the-lines' this matter and are toeing the 'company line' that Andrea Stella gave to the media.

[BMMR61]

I'm amazed that people completely misunderstand the whole situation.

...It was because Norris accepted to pit second (so Oscar is protected) with the understanding that Oscar will not undercut him. ...

All-risks insurance. You go first, I get the spot, whatever happens

Because they are not racing? Because they are lying to us and play their own game?

I mean...even Mercedes allowed them to race between the two sides of the garage. At McLaren even undercutting in a race where they just do not have any competition to fear is not allowed. They not even go for racing the leader, just drive it home. This is a joke.

No they didn’t. The only thing I’m going to say about Mercedes in the McLaren thread is that Merc didn’t let them race- particularly through the Bottas era.

Bottas was a Nr.2 and the behavior of Mercedes in seasons after 2019 was similarly poor, albeit I strongly doubt, that what you say is true to full extend.
I am obviously speaking about Ham vs. Ros. There they also had a 1sec advantage to the rest and at least allowed a more or less genuine fight.

Back on topic. Your post ifs further proof of the criticism Mclaren receive. ...
That’s the sad thing, not what McLaren are doing but that people can’t enjoy a race if their preference isn’t winning it.

Well, address the nonsense like the ideas of favoring strategy in Hun. But I am not criticizing anything that is not true. I do not really care who wins, but I hate it if they deliberately make the race a boredom festival on their end because they have the championship in the bag.

There wasn't sufficient reason for McLaren to hold out as long as they did for a SC, they were creating both risks and internal tensions. If Lando was happy to offer his teammate first stop (with just over 3 seconds in hand), that could be seen as slightly reckless as an undercut could be up to 2 seconds - not a lot of margin, but that was Lando's decision. On balance I'm glad Oscar chose to play it straight, and with less hoo-hah than he received last year at Hungary.

I think the McLaren pit wall, on-the-day brains trust aren't very bright, AND at management level, they are playing an almost impossible game to be between the Mercedes extremes of the Ham v Bot prescribed, "move over #2", and Ham v Ros all out internal war. I would prefer to see something closer to the latter, albeit with a little more subtlety (remembering British fans, that BOTH were guilty of underhand stuff). We (for the moment at least) have two classier personalities. but that opens the door for many fans to criticise their being too civil. I think in totality we need to wait. The last few rounds are probably going to get quite spicy - that is unless Piastri seals the deal with a string of victories.