Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

[diffuser]

Honda is a HUGE Company and they will make a decent engine. the main problem about their engine in 2015 was the "zero" or "more compact" concept from Mclaren in that case and Honda nedded to build their engine how Mclaren wants for that concept of the car, and not how they want. After change to RedBull, Honda had more freedom and transparency with redbull and all people today knows how good is Honda's engine today. I think Honda will build a very good engine for next year.

The problems Honda had back then are well-documented, and you're not entirely right. The issue wasn't the constraints McLaren placed on Honda, as you suggested. The real problem was that Honda started too late on the new regulations the year before. Remember, Honda wasn't involved in F1 prior to that.

They did the best they could with the power unit (PU) in a short timeframe, but they didn’t have much opportunity to test—especially under the restrictions McLaren imposed. Once they got into F1 and began running the PU, they realized they had made some significant mistakes. Unfortunately, the token system at the time prevented them from making radical changes to fix those issues.

In the final year before Honda left McLaren, the token restrictions were removed, and Honda completely redesigned the PU. Naturally, with a brand-new design, they experienced several reliability problems. However, by the time the Honda PU was installed in Toro Rosso the following year, most of those issues had been resolved.

That year, their main concern was the number of races the split turbo could last before failing. The failures were largely due to imbalances in the turbo’s axial shaft. Honda eventually resolved that problem with help from their aeronautics division.

So is history repeating itself with Honda starting late again? I hope they have had enough time to catch up, you don’t want to give Mercedes a major head start as it took them quite a few years to catch back up the last time. Who knows what will happen with these engines though.

They didn't start late. They jumped back in before the regs were finalized. So before anybody could really get started on the new PU. Plus they have a power unit in F1 that has been in F1 for years and they have been maintaining it. OK, there has been some turnover in staff but you could argue that's for the best, as the new staff will bring fresh ideas.

[RedNEO]

The problems Honda had back then are well-documented, and you're not entirely right. The issue wasn't the constraints McLaren placed on Honda, as you suggested. The real problem was that Honda started too late on the new regulations the year before. Remember, Honda wasn't involved in F1 prior to that.

They did the best they could with the power unit (PU) in a short timeframe, but they didn’t have much opportunity to test—especially under the restrictions McLaren imposed. Once they got into F1 and began running the PU, they realized they had made some significant mistakes. Unfortunately, the token system at the time prevented them from making radical changes to fix those issues.

In the final year before Honda left McLaren, the token restrictions were removed, and Honda completely redesigned the PU. Naturally, with a brand-new design, they experienced several reliability problems. However, by the time the Honda PU was installed in Toro Rosso the following year, most of those issues had been resolved.

That year, their main concern was the number of races the split turbo could last before failing. The failures were largely due to imbalances in the turbo’s axial shaft. Honda eventually resolved that problem with help from their aeronautics division.

So is history repeating itself with Honda starting late again? I hope they have had enough time to catch up, you don’t want to give Mercedes a major head start as it took them quite a few years to catch back up the last time. Who knows what will happen with these engines though.

They didn't start late. They jumped back in before the regs were finalized. So before anybody could really get started on the new PU. Plus they have a power unit in F1 that has been in F1 for years and they have been maintaining it. OK, there has been some turnover in staff but you could argue that's for the best, as the new staff will bring fresh ideas.

Edit: it’s actually the ICE Honda need to nail at the start since that will be the difficult one to recover with rule limits or at least that’s what I remember Newey alluding to here?
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/big- ... ian-newey/

Maybe that’s why Honda was playing catch up there because didnt they focus on electrical first? I don’t know the details but I also wonder what Aston Martins first gearbox will be like. Will it have problems with downshifts like the Red Bull at times? Hopefully not.

[diffuser]

Edit: it’s actually the ICE Honda need to nail at the start since that will be the difficult one to recover with rule limits or at least that’s what I remember Newey alluding to here?
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/big- ... ian-newey/

Maybe that’s why Honda was playing catch up there because didnt they focus on electrical first? I don’t know the details but I also wonder what Aston Martins first gearbox will be like. Will it have problems with downshifts like the Red Bull at times? Hopefully not.

Back in 2014? I think late 2012 Honda decided to return to F1 and then McLaren pushed them to come in 2014. Honda wanted to wait, McLaren split from Mercedes and were desperate for a PU. Left Honda in a state were they had little time to build everything up, including hiring man power. They had very small group of people that had worked in F1 back in 2008, I think. Hard tell exactly when Honda let everyone go...

There are a few youtube videos on it. I got the impression nobody builds their own gearbox. They design them, yes but the majority get third parties to build them.

[RedNEO]

Edit: it’s actually the ICE Honda need to nail at the start since that will be the difficult one to recover with rule limits or at least that’s what I remember Newey alluding to here?
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/big- ... ian-newey/

Maybe that’s why Honda was playing catch up there because didnt they focus on electrical first? I don’t know the details but I also wonder what Aston Martins first gearbox will be like. Will it have problems with downshifts like the Red Bull at times? Hopefully not.

Back in 2014? I think late 2012 Honda decided to return to F1 and then McLaren pushed them to come in 2014. Honda wanted to wait, McLaren split from Mercedes and were desperate for a PU. Left Honda in a state were they had little time to build everything up, including hiring man power. They had very small group of people that had worked in F1 back in 2008, I think. Hard tell exactly when Honda let everyone go...

There are a few youtube videos on it. I got the impression nobody builds their own gearbox. They design them, yes but the majority get third parties to build them.

No not 2014. What I just mentioned is all about 2026. Newey thinks the ICE will be harder to catch up on because of how the rules are written. And Honda admitted to starting on the electrical side first for 2026.

[diffuser]

Edit: it’s actually the ICE Honda need to nail at the start since that will be the difficult one to recover with rule limits or at least that’s what I remember Newey alluding to here?
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/big- ... ian-newey/

Maybe that’s why Honda was playing catch up there because didnt they focus on electrical first? I don’t know the details but I also wonder what Aston Martins first gearbox will be like. Will it have problems with downshifts like the Red Bull at times? Hopefully not.

Back in 2014? I think late 2012 Honda decided to return to F1 and then McLaren pushed them to come in 2014. Honda wanted to wait, McLaren split from Mercedes and were desperate for a PU. Left Honda in a state were they had little time to build everything up, including hiring man power. They had very small group of people that had worked in F1 back in 2008, I think. Hard tell exactly when Honda let everyone go...

There are a few youtube videos on it. I got the impression nobody builds their own gearbox. They design them, yes but the majority get third parties to build them.

No not 2014. What I just mentioned is all about 2026. Newey thinks the ICE will be harder to catch up on because of how the rules are written. And Honda admitted to starting on the electrical side first for 2026.

I read that and thought it was pretty vague. What is it about how the rules are written will make the ICE harder to catch up on?

#1 As far as I understand, the only restrictions are on budget. What you spend it on, it's up to you.

#2 They have so much data on the current ICE and Working with the new fuels. Remember, the fuels have been moving to the target of full sustainable for a while now. So, they've had a team actively working on that and how to improve combustion with those new fuels. Alright, the MGU-H has been removed and the turbo simplified...I don’t see the mechanical changes being complicated, considering the ICE data that they have from the current ICE.

[zoroastar]

Edit: it’s actually the ICE Honda need to nail at the start since that will be the difficult one to recover with rule limits or at least that’s what I remember Newey alluding to here?
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/big- ... ian-newey/

Maybe that’s why Honda was playing catch up there because didnt they focus on electrical first? I don’t know the details but I also wonder what Aston Martins first gearbox will be like. Will it have problems with downshifts like the Red Bull at times? Hopefully not.

Back in 2014? I think late 2012 Honda decided to return to F1 and then McLaren pushed them to come in 2014. Honda wanted to wait, McLaren split from Mercedes and were desperate for a PU. Left Honda in a state were they had little time to build everything up, including hiring man power. They had very small group of people that had worked in F1 back in 2008, I think. Hard tell exactly when Honda let everyone go...

There are a few youtube videos on it. I got the impression nobody builds their own gearbox. They design them, yes but the majority get third parties to build them.

No not 2014. What I just mentioned is all about 2026. Newey thinks the ICE will be harder to catch up on because of how the rules are written. And Honda admitted to starting on the electrical side first for 2026.

i remember seeing newey talk about that. i wondered if he was making that statement from an aero standpoint and thinking in his head how he would like the packaging to be. weve heard that honda has made some changes to it at Astons request. i assumed newey had some input on that. how cool would it be to be a fly on the wall in the factories right now.
on a somewhat unrelated topic, i wonder how much the new engine regs will change the sound of the power units next year. i assume that since nobody really mentions it that its not gonna change too much.

[leblanc]

...

The electrical bits is gonna be a issue. Mercedes is currently said to be very far ahead along with Ferrari. Honda is said to be close to sorting it but they are going to work very late into the introduction to ensure reliability, something they missed in 2015 causing the mess. Lets's see...

Do you have that from real insiders or is this from the "public" media-rumors?

The MGU-H isn't really part of the ICE but has been part of the turbo. So, they've just removed the MGU-H from the turbo and, have lost the ability to spin up the turbo to prevent lag. That will likely affect turbo sizing.

To some degree, MGU-K torque fill will mitigate the torque lost due to spool time. But, yes, turbine sizes will likely be smaller if not both turbine and compressor wheels/housings.

[diffuser]

Back in 2014? I think late 2012 Honda decided to return to F1 and then McLaren pushed them to come in 2014. Honda wanted to wait, McLaren split from Mercedes and were desperate for a PU. Left Honda in a state were they had little time to build everything up, including hiring man power. They had very small group of people that had worked in F1 back in 2008, I think. Hard tell exactly when Honda let everyone go...

There are a few youtube videos on it. I got the impression nobody builds their own gearbox. They design them, yes but the majority get third parties to build them.

No not 2014. What I just mentioned is all about 2026. Newey thinks the ICE will be harder to catch up on because of how the rules are written. And Honda admitted to starting on the electrical side first for 2026.

i remember seeing newey talk about that. i wondered if he was making that statement from an aero standpoint and thinking in his head how he would like the packaging to be. weve heard that honda has made some changes to it at Astons request. i assumed newey had some input on that. how cool would it be to be a fly on the wall in the factories right now.
on a somewhat unrelated topic, i wonder how much the new engine regs will change the sound of the power units next year. i assume that since nobody really mentions it that its not gonna change too much.

That would make more sense, packing of the ICE.

With regards to the engine noise, it still a 1.6 liter 6 cylinder with the exhaust going into a turbine and the intake connected to interchanger that's connected to a compressor. Both those things will mute the sounds as they've been muting the sound since 2014.

[diffuser]

Back in 2014? I think late 2012 Honda decided to return to F1 and then McLaren pushed them to come in 2014. Honda wanted to wait, McLaren split from Mercedes and were desperate for a PU. Left Honda in a state were they had little time to build everything up, including hiring man power. They had very small group of people that had worked in F1 back in 2008, I think. Hard tell exactly when Honda let everyone go...

There are a few youtube videos on it. I got the impression nobody builds their own gearbox. They design them, yes but the majority get third parties to build them.

No not 2014. What I just mentioned is all about 2026. Newey thinks the ICE will be harder to catch up on because of how the rules are written. And Honda admitted to starting on the electrical side first for 2026.

i remember seeing newey talk about that. i wondered if he was making that statement from an aero standpoint and thinking in his head how he would like the packaging to be. weve heard that honda has made some changes to it at Astons request. i assumed newey had some input on that. how cool would it be to be a fly on the wall in the factories right now.
on a somewhat unrelated topic, i wonder how much the new engine regs will change the sound of the power units next year. i assume that since nobody really mentions it that its not gonna change too much.

That would make more sense, packing of the ICE.

With regards to the engine noise, it still a 1.6 liter 6 cylinder with the exhaust going into a turbine and the intake connected to interchanger that's connected to a compressor. Both those things will mute the sounds as they've been muting the sound since 2014.

[zoroastar]

No not 2014. What I just mentioned is all about 2026. Newey thinks the ICE will be harder to catch up on because of how the rules are written. And Honda admitted to starting on the electrical side first for 2026.

i remember seeing newey talk about that. i wondered if he was making that statement from an aero standpoint and thinking in his head how he would like the packaging to be. weve heard that honda has made some changes to it at Astons request. i assumed newey had some input on that. how cool would it be to be a fly on the wall in the factories right now.
on a somewhat unrelated topic, i wonder how much the new engine regs will change the sound of the power units next year. i assume that since nobody really mentions it that its not gonna change too much.

That would make more sense, packing of the ICE.

With regards to the engine noise, it still a 1.6 liter 6 cylinder with the exhaust going into a turbine and the intake connected to interchanger that's connected to a compressor. Both those things will mute the sounds as they've been muting the sound since 2014.

yeah i assumed that, but also in the current regs none of the power units are hitting anywhere near the RPMs that they could under the rules. i assume thats not going to change. i want to say the merc was topping out at 11K rpm or something like that, when the regs stated 14k or higher max. its been a while since ive paid attention to it. well probably have to wait for the v8s to get anything near what we used to have. and even then, im not sure they will ever be the ear bleeding volumes from pre 2014 days

[diffuser]

i remember seeing newey talk about that. i wondered if he was making that statement from an aero standpoint and thinking in his head how he would like the packaging to be. weve heard that honda has made some changes to it at Astons request. i assumed newey had some input on that. how cool would it be to be a fly on the wall in the factories right now.
on a somewhat unrelated topic, i wonder how much the new engine regs will change the sound of the power units next year. i assume that since nobody really mentions it that its not gonna change too much.

That would make more sense, packing of the ICE.

With regards to the engine noise, it still a 1.6 liter 6 cylinder with the exhaust going into a turbine and the intake connected to interchanger that's connected to a compressor. Both those things will mute the sounds as they've been muting the sound since 2014.

yeah i assumed that, but also in the current regs none of the power units are hitting anywhere near the RPMs that they could under the rules. i assume thats not going to change. i want to say the merc was topping out at 11K rpm or something like that, when the regs stated 14k or higher max. its been a while since ive paid attention to it. well probably have to wait for the v8s to get anything near what we used to have. and even then, im not sure they will ever be the ear bleeding volumes from pre 2014 days

Yeah, they're looking for the V8s to be normal aspirated. So forget the RPMs, the NA just makes them loud. They'll still be fuel restricted. I'm not a fan. Think it's going backwards.

[RedNEO]

Now, several months later, Cowell shares a light-hearted anecdote about Newey’s Monaco statements during an exclusive interview with Motorsport.com: “After Adrian did the interview, and as he walked away from that interview, he whispered in my ear and said, yeah, I just said two years, because I know it'll push the guys along. And we just smiled and had a laugh about it!”

According to Cowell, Newey’s comments have indeed pushed the team to prove him wrong.


“There's a lot of work going on to push the simulation, to make it more representative, and to make the cockpit environment more representative. There's a concerted effort to improve, and also to make sure that Adrian isn't focused on that. We want to make sure that he can be fully focused on something else,” Cowell said, referring to designing the fastest possible car under F1's new ruleset for 2026.

The way Newey’s comments were received internally says a lot about Aston Martin’s ambition, Cowell added: “That's the thing I love about the team spirit. We've all got pride in the areas that we're working on, and that's exactly the same within Aston Martin Formula 1 team.

“So the people looking after the driver-in-the-loop simulator, of course they took that badly, but the way they're responding is by working even harder together.”

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/asto ... /10766117/

[madridista]

I have not listened to the podcast myself, but i have seen multiple X accounts post the same quote:

Carlos Miquel: “I’m getting positive messages about the 2026 Aston Martin.
I’m also getting positive messages about the Honda engine, not like in the McLaren era.”

-translated from spanish
https://www.cope.es/podcasts/cope-gp/ep ... 53042.html

Would be interesting to hear thoughts on how credible this guy is if anyone is familiar with him.

[quincalla]

I have not listened to the podcast myself, but i have seen multiple X accounts post the same quote:

Carlos Miquel: “I’m getting positive messages about the 2026 Aston Martin.
I’m also getting positive messages about the Honda engine, not like in the McLaren era.”

-translated from spanish
https://www.cope.es/podcasts/cope-gp/ep ... 53042.html

Would be interesting to hear thoughts on how credible this guy is if anyone is familiar with him.

He's been pretty good regarding the timing of upgrades so he must have his sources. Also before this season he said Aston was expecting to fight for p5 with Williams so he got that one about right too.
During his podcast he also said Newey is "obsessing" over car weight and that he'll go to the last couple of races to try to find out more. But yeah that was it, he only talked about f1 for a few minutes.

[diffuser]

I have not listened to the podcast myself, but i have seen multiple X accounts post the same quote:

Carlos Miquel: “I’m getting positive messages about the 2026 Aston Martin.
I’m also getting positive messages about the Honda engine, not like in the McLaren era.”

-translated from spanish
https://www.cope.es/podcasts/cope-gp/ep ... 53042.html

Would be interesting to hear thoughts on how credible this guy is if anyone is familiar with him.

Positive messages about anything, when there is nothing to reference against is meaningless. I'm not saying they're gonna be good, bad or indifferent. You just don't know how fast it us until you see the competition on the track.