2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Badger]

All left RB when Horner was still running the team, he did a great job ..........................................

Adrian Newey
Jonathan Wheatley
Rob Marshall
Will Courtenay
Steve Winstanley
Michael Broadhurst
Vin Dhanani

I would only add the small detail that he recruited them, retained them for over a decade, and won 14 championships with them before they eventually left to pursue other opportunities. These details may seem unimportant relative to the otherworldly success Ferrari has enjoyed in the same time period as this was happening, but I just wanted to add some unimportant nuance to your completely balanced take.

[Badger]

There is but one man that can redeem Ferrari, and he is still employed by Red Bull.

Seriously though, I don’t see Horner being given the power to really change anything. The only one man army that could potentially shift the fortunes of Ferrari is Verstappen. Other than that it would have to be a big reorganisation to find that magic spark. Sort of like McLaren have been doing.

[woocasz]

If that guy really said that, I would take out his degree, and if I were Ferrari I would eliminate any record of his employment there out of shame. There have to be limits to nonsense in technical topics.

Welcome back.
I was wondering what happend to you and Vanja, you have stopped posting here on the forum.
Is this related to Ferrari's disastrous season? What do you think about the current situation at Ferrari? What are the Italian media saying?

[deadhead]

There is but one man that can redeem Ferrari, and he is still employed by Red Bull.

Certainly not Max Verstappen

[Sergej]

If that guy really said that, I would take out his degree, and if I were Ferrari I would eliminate any record of his employment there out of shame. There have to be limits to nonsense in technical topics.

Welcome back.
I was wondering what happend to you and Vanja, you have stopped posting here on the forum.
Is this related to Ferrari's disastrous season? What do you think about the current situation at Ferrari? What are the Italian media saying?

that's what Italian media are saying https://www.corriere.it/sport/formula-1 ... refresh_ce

Ferrari not learning from their mistakes, track team under accusation (particularly Matteo Togninalli), tense relationships within the team, inability to adapt to evolving situations, apparently FIA doing intensive checks on the car, more people to leave the team

for whom has known Ferrari for long time, the classic menu when things go bad.

[MattLightBlue]

If that guy really said that, I would take out his degree, and if I were Ferrari I would eliminate any record of his employment there out of shame. There have to be limits to nonsense in technical topics.

Welcome back.
I was wondering what happend to you and Vanja, you have stopped posting here on the forum.
Is this related to Ferrari's disastrous season? What do you think about the current situation at Ferrari? What are the Italian media saying?

that's what Italian media are saying https://www.corriere.it/sport/formula-1 ... refresh_ce

Ferrari not learning from their mistakes, track team under accusation (particularly Matteo Togninalli), tense relationships within the team, inability to adapt to evolving situations, apparently FIA doing intensive checks on the car, more people to leave the team

for whom has known Ferrari for long time, the classic menu when things go bad.

The issue is the performance from the car, every other area needs to improve but it never will with a car that doesn’t excel.
I really don’t understand this need to find the culprit, bringing out a list of well reasoned improvements should be enough for every working environment.
If a good TP (supposedly CH) is needed only to bring capable people in, maybe they should consider letting someone else do this job?

[Wynters]

If you give Horner Adrian Newey, a four car team (and the funding and wind tunnel time to go with it), multiple regulation changes, two great drivers and twenty years as a TP...then he'll win substantial less than Toto Wolff did in half the time.

The truth of Horner's brilliant management style is that his drivers publicly ignore his orders. If even they can't be bothered to even pretend to show him the most basic respect, why should anyone else? Let alone that, despite being in an astounding dominant position during these regulations, they've since utterly fumbled them and Newey left to go to Aston Martin (Aston Martin!) rather than hang around under Horner.

Give Vasseur some time. Maybe he will be a success, maybe he won't. But changing TP every other race is not going to magically solve things that can take years to resolve.

[Badger]

There is but one man that can redeem Ferrari, and he is still employed by Red Bull.

Certainly not Max Verstappen

Certainly yes. Ferrari is at its most successful when it has a very strong driver (both in driving and willpower) leading the team. For whatever reason that seems to work best to focus the team. Maybe the ego and stubbornness of the driver must match that of Ferrari itself, to bring balance to the team. Anyways, Lauda had it, Schumacher had it, and Max has it. I would also give an honourable mention to Alonso, though he never won the chip he came darn close a couple of times, and he had a lot of those personal qualities.

The current situation reminds of that scene from Rush. The car is a “shitbox” and Niki wasn’t afraid to say it, but Leclerc can’t say it, and neither can Hamilton. That brand worship that stands in the way of forthright objectivity seems to be back. You also see it in Vasseur’s delusional post-race analysis.

[MattLightBlue]

There is but one man that can redeem Ferrari, and he is still employed by Red Bull.

Certainly not Max Verstappen

Certainly yes. Ferrari is at its most successful when it has a very strong driver (both in driving and willpower) leading the team. For whatever reason that seems to work best to focus the team. Maybe the ego and stubbornness of the driver must match that of Ferrari itself, to bring balance to the team. Anyways, Lauda had it, Schumacher had it, and Max has it. I would also give an honourable mention to Alonso, though he never won the chip he came darn close a couple of times, and he had a lot of those personal qualities.

The current situation reminds of that scene from Rush. The car is a “shitbox” and Niki wasn’t afraid to say it, but Leclerc can’t say it, and neither can Hamilton. That brand worship that stands in the way of forthright objectivity seems to be back. You also see it in Vasseur’s delusional post-race analysis.

It doesn’t work like this anymore, F1 teams are 1000+ people complex companies now. You are referring to what it was in the past until early 2000.

[Badger]

Certainly not Max Verstappen

Certainly yes. Ferrari is at its most successful when it has a very strong driver (both in driving and willpower) leading the team. For whatever reason that seems to work best to focus the team. Maybe the ego and stubbornness of the driver must match that of Ferrari itself, to bring balance to the team. Anyways, Lauda had it, Schumacher had it, and Max has it. I would also give an honourable mention to Alonso, though he never won the chip he came darn close a couple of times, and he had a lot of those personal qualities.

The current situation reminds of that scene from Rush. The car is a “shitbox” and Niki wasn’t afraid to say it, but Leclerc can’t say it, and neither can Hamilton. That brand worship that stands in the way of forthright objectivity seems to be back. You also see it in Vasseur’s delusional post-race analysis.

It doesn’t work like this anymore, F1 teams are 1000+ people complex companies now. You are referring to what it was in the past until early 2000.

I’m talking about having leadership. In that sense one man can absolutely make a difference. They’re not going to do all the work but if they can get those 1000+ people on the same page and motivated, that’s worth a lot.

Reading media reports on Ferrari one gets the distinct feeling that the different areas of the team are very much not one the same page.

[bluechris]

If you give Horner Adrian Newey, a four car team (and the funding and wind tunnel time to go with it), multiple regulation changes, two great drivers and twenty years as a TP...then he'll win substantial less than Toto Wolff did in half the time.

The truth of Horner's brilliant management style is that his drivers publicly ignore his orders. If even they can't be bothered to even pretend to show him the most basic respect, why should anyone else? Let alone that, despite being in an astounding dominant position during these regulations, they've since utterly fumbled them and Newey left to go to Aston Martin (Aston Martin!) rather than hang around under Horner.

Give Vasseur some time. Maybe he will be a success, maybe he won't. But changing TP every other race is not going to magically solve things that can take years to resolve.

If you take out from what you say the engine that had tailored made the rules long before they came reality, how many titles Toto would had?

[dren]

There is but one man that can redeem Ferrari, and he is still employed by Red Bull.

Certainly not Max Verstappen

Certainly yes. Ferrari is at its most successful when it has a very strong driver (both in driving and willpower) leading the team. For whatever reason that seems to work best to focus the team. Maybe the ego and stubbornness of the driver must match that of Ferrari itself, to bring balance to the team. Anyways, Lauda had it, Schumacher had it, and Max has it. I would also give an honourable mention to Alonso, though he never won the chip he came darn close a couple of times, and he had a lot of those personal qualities.

The current situation reminds of that scene from Rush. The car is a “shitbox” and Niki wasn’t afraid to say it, but Leclerc can’t say it, and neither can Hamilton. That brand worship that stands in the way of forthright objectivity seems to be back. You also see it in Vasseur’s delusional post-race analysis.

I get the feeling Leclerc has said it, just not publicly.

[Luscion]

Ferrari politics hampering the team yet again it seems. Also apparently Lewis recently sent another letter to top management about improvements that should be made

There's criticism of an overly centralized management of track activities that hampers flexibility, the inability to react quickly to situations emerges, an aspect evident in qualifying. Where just an intuition, a deeper understanding of details, is enough to gain positions. The recurring and unresolved issue of difficulty getting the tires up to temperature, a condition that forces the drivers to drive in constant struggle. Mercedes started working on this some time ago to extract potential from a car that wasn't at the top, seeking solutions also through the use of medium tires in qualifying, with good results. This is also what Lewis was referring to. He expected to have more influence on decisions, but instead found himself facing a series of unheeded requests and having to fight against 'internal politics' to bring about improvements. Vettel had a similar experience. With one important difference: the German in his first season in red, in 2015, had a limited but solid car within a team equipped to seize opportunities when they arose. For Lewis it's not like that.

https://www.corriere.it/sport/formula-1 ... refresh_ce

[Seanspeed]

I’m talking about having leadership. In that sense one man can absolutely make a difference. They’re not going to do all the work but if they can get those 1000+ people on the same page and motivated, that’s worth a lot.

Reading media reports on Ferrari one gets the distinct feeling that the different areas of the team are very much not one the same page.

Drivers cannot improve the competence of the aerodynamicists and engineers by simply being more vocal about things.

Lewis couldn't help Mercedes when their design teams became off-track. And Max similarly wont be capable of doing much of anything to bring Red Bull back to the top with Newey gone.

As Alonso will tell you, luck plays a pretty big part of finding yourself in the right situation at the right time. And it's only too easy for people to look back in hindsight and attribute any deeper meaning to drivers finding themselves with dominant cars/teams.

[catent]

Certainly not Max Verstappen

Certainly yes. Ferrari is at its most successful when it has a very strong driver (both in driving and willpower) leading the team. For whatever reason that seems to work best to focus the team. Maybe the ego and stubbornness of the driver must match that of Ferrari itself, to bring balance to the team. Anyways, Lauda had it, Schumacher had it, and Max has it. I would also give an honourable mention to Alonso, though he never won the chip he came darn close a couple of times, and he had a lot of those personal qualities.

The current situation reminds of that scene from Rush. The car is a “shitbox” and Niki wasn’t afraid to say it, but Leclerc can’t say it, and neither can Hamilton. That brand worship that stands in the way of forthright objectivity seems to be back. You also see it in Vasseur’s delusional post-race analysis.

I get the feeling Leclerc has said it, just not publicly.

Absolutely he has said it privately, and he’s effectively said it publicly (in kinder terms).

The notion that Leclerc is simply a passenger, unwilling or unable to give critical feedback to the team because of an emotional haze due to his love of Ferrari, is simply untrue, and there is plenty of evidence indicating as much.

Leclerc is clearly unhappy with the current situation and is letting it be known. Musings about drivers’ respective leadership qualities and the impact they have on overall team/car performance are entirely subjective and largely meaningless.