2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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In Mexico, he revealed that the biggest difference now is that the car can be run “in a different configuration” - which many believe to mean, on a simple level, running closer to the ground - and this unlocks “quite a bit more pace” and less sliding on the tyres.

But it can also be set up more to Verstappen’s preference: “Naturally It gives me more confidence and it allows us to set up the car a little more aggressive, a little more on the nose without losing the rear for example.

“And that's exactly what you want.”
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/ever ... rand-prix/
It doesn't turn.

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Sergej
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
23 Oct 2025, 23:27
Post made in AMR team thread:
Ashwinv16 wrote:
20 Oct 2025, 21:20
So there is more reason for Mexico to be bad. Apparently all Mercedes engines will have to drop by nearly 20hp due to the engine failures from early in the season. A fix was made but it won't be enough to cope with the high altitudes. So I might skip this race entirely.
Ashwin is often receiving inside info (which often in retrospect is validated) so I'm cautiously optimistic about this
can be a positive, but actually McLaren didn't suffer engine problems as other Mercedes teams (as far as we know Lando's problem in Zandvoort was not PU related), so I'm not giving myself too much hope.

f1isgood
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I am not going to believe in 20bhp power loss theory even if it might end being true. It all sounds like hopium. And even then it's unlikely to affect race performance as cars run in much more detuned phase.
Call a spade, a spade.

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ME4ME
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Mercedes -20 hp. Such information in isolation isn't of much value. You'd have to ask how much are Ferrari and Honda giving up as well. Might be equally much to ensure reliability. So net gain=0.

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venkyhere
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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f1isgood wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 08:23
I am not going to believe in 20bhp power loss theory even if it might end being true. It all sounds like hopium. And even then it's unlikely to affect race performance as cars run in much more detuned phase.
Well, the 'theory' is that the turbo(s) have to run at higher speed to suck feed the engine enough air that is commensurate to sea levels, which increases inefficiency in 3 ways (that I can think of) :
a) turbo will run hotter => cooling need of turbo and cooling need of intake air, both go up. Which in turn means more pumping losses from the engine's water pump and more 'holes opened up' (air cooling and water cooling) on the body, not only increasing drag, but detrimental to the efficiency of all the flow structures in the rear - rear wing, beam wing etc. So a double whammy.
b) since the 'responsiveness to wastegate action' from the turbo will be reduced at higher turbo RPMs, turbo-lag will be higher, meaning slightly reduced throttle response.
c) more exhaust energy used up in running the turbo => energy recovery from MGU-H will be reduced. Also, the exhaust exit will be slower, so any minor benefits offered by the exhaust in terms of suction around beam-wing will be reduced.

In terms of power delivery, teams will adapt their engine maps (I am sure there is a mexico quali map, mexico race map, etc etc) to bridge the power aspect to some extent (so maybe it's like 10hp instead of 20hp or maybe it's 20hp instead of 50hp, we dont know the numbers), but I suspect that cooling is the bigger concern than power, for reliability sake (cooling of air, water, oil, hydaulics, brakes).

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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ME4ME wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 08:40
Mercedes -20 hp. Such information in isolation isn't of much value. You'd have to ask how much are Ferrari and Honda giving up as well. Might be equally much to ensure reliability. So net gain=0.
Yup. Everyone has less power in Mexico, so unless that -20 is relative to the competition (which I doubt), it’s not going to make a difference. In general I’ve not noticed much altitude difference between the manufacturers since 2021.

Henk_v
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Unless the nercedes PU does have to be limited somewhat due to reliability and the aforemetioned fix was running slightly higher turbo RPM's, leaving less headroom fof high altitude maps.

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organic
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Henk_v wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 10:47
Unless the nercedes PU does have to be limited somewhat due to reliability and the aforemetioned fix was running slightly higher turbo RPM's, leaving less headroom fof high altitude maps.
And we've already seen that with Ferrari at Mexico in previous years right? I think it was 2022 they were a minute off the win at the end of the GP

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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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venkyhere wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 08:51
f1isgood wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 08:23
I am not going to believe in 20bhp power loss theory even if it might end being true. It all sounds like hopium. And even then it's unlikely to affect race performance as cars run in much more detuned phase.
Well, the 'theory' is that the turbo(s) have to run at higher speed to suck feed the engine enough air that is commensurate to sea levels, which increases inefficiency in 3 ways (that I can think of) :
a) turbo will run hotter => cooling need of turbo and cooling need of intake air, both go up. Which in turn means more pumping losses from the engine's water pump and more 'holes opened up' (air cooling and water cooling) on the body, not only increasing drag, but detrimental to the efficiency of all the flow structures in the rear - rear wing, beam wing etc. So a double whammy.
b) since the 'responsiveness to wastegate action' from the turbo will be reduced at higher turbo RPMs, turbo-lag will be higher, meaning slightly reduced throttle response.
c) more exhaust energy used up in running the turbo => energy recovery from MGU-H will be reduced. Also, the exhaust exit will be slower, so any minor benefits offered by the exhaust in terms of suction around beam-wing will be reduced.

In terms of power delivery, teams will adapt their engine maps (I am sure there is a mexico quali map, mexico race map, etc etc) to bridge the power aspect to some extent (so maybe it's like 10hp instead of 20hp or maybe it's 20hp instead of 50hp, we dont know the numbers), but I suspect that cooling is the bigger concern than power, for reliability sake (cooling of air, water, oil, hydaulics, brakes).
Indeed, due to the reasons you said and Ferrari unreliability in 22 they had to run detuned around here. So while it's possible Merc runs it detuned, I would not be surprised if Honda has to do the same as well as someone else pointed out.
Call a spade, a spade.

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Sergej
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Imagine if Red Bull breached the 2024 Cost Cap while actually been downgrading the car for months :lol:

f1isgood
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sergej wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 12:01
Imagine if Red Bull breached the 2024 Cost Cap while actually been downgrading the car for months :lol:
If it was Red Bull we would have heard the news around Monza. Toto is still around.
Call a spade, a spade.

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lio007
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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f1isgood wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 12:02
Sergej wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 12:01
Imagine if Red Bull breached the 2024 Cost Cap while actually been downgrading the car for months :lol:
If it was Red Bull we would have heard the news around Monza. Toto is still around.
I'm not sure... I somehow get the feeling that Horner's sacking has something to do with it...or maybe not, I'm torn :)

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organic
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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lio007 wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 13:31
f1isgood wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 12:02
Sergej wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 12:01
Imagine if Red Bull breached the 2024 Cost Cap while actually been downgrading the car for months :lol:
If it was Red Bull we would have heard the news around Monza. Toto is still around.
I'm not sure... I somehow get the feeling that Horner's sacking has something to do with it...or maybe not, I'm torn :)
If it was to do with the Horner sacking he wouldn't have received a 9 figure severance package...

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lio007
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 13:45
lio007 wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 13:31
f1isgood wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 12:02


If it was Red Bull we would have heard the news around Monza. Toto is still around.
I'm not sure... I somehow get the feeling that Horner's sacking has something to do with it...or maybe not, I'm torn :)
If it was to do with the Horner sacking he wouldn't have received a 9 figure severance package...
I don't know, CH had a valid contract that got terminated early by the employer.

f1isgood
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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lio007 wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 14:27
organic wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 13:45
lio007 wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 13:31

I'm not sure... I somehow get the feeling that Horner's sacking has something to do with it...or maybe not, I'm torn :)
If it was to do with the Horner sacking he wouldn't have received a 9 figure severance package...
I don't know, CH had a valid contract that got terminated early by the employer.
Were there more DNFs last year than 2021? Then could be.
Call a spade, a spade.