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[selvam_e2002]

we need to thank Alonso for Honda success in F1 with RB. Without his Famous comment on Honda GP2

[diffuser]

we need to thank Alonso for Honda success in F1 with RB. Without his Famous comment on Honda GP2

That might not be true but I can see why your "Reputation" is -1.

[selvam_e2002]

we need to thank Alonso for Honda success in F1 with RB. Without his Famous comment on Honda GP2

That might not be true but I can see why your "Reputation" is -1.

Yes. -1. but that comment from Alonso should have triggered their upper management to prove them self.

Let see what surprise they are going to give in 2026.

[diffuser]

we need to thank Alonso for Honda success in F1 with RB. Without his Famous comment on Honda GP2

That might not be true but I can see why your "Reputation" is -1.

Yes. -1. but that comment from Alonso should have triggered their upper management to prove them self.

Let see what surprise they are going to give in 2026.

You have no idea what you're talking about but yet you write.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

The only difference between 2014 and 2018 was the removal of the token system. That change untied Honda's hands and allowed them to undo all the wrongs they created by jumping into 2014 regs too early and with so little préparation. They were able to completely redesigned the PU for 2018

I meant that I think this regulation change is as significant a change as 2014 was. So how each PU manufacturer has been performing till now may well be drastically altered in 2026. Honda may well produce a good power unit but its all relative to the competition. So even though they are at par with Mercedes now under current regs, the change in regs is significant enough that its possible that a significant gap could develop between them and Mercedes. Whenever theres a huge overhaul like this, theres also possibilities of loop hole exploitations and if you look at Mercedes history, they always seem to find some loop hole exploits.

Yeah I guess.

Merc had been building F1 PUs for years prior to 2014. So when the 2014 regs got finalized in 2010, they immediately started working on the PU for the 2014 regs. Honda didn't decide to jump back into F1 till late 2012, at that point they didn't have anything in F1. They'd been out of the game for at least 5 years. They knew they wouldn't be ready but McLaren having divorced from Merc, pressured Honda. McLaren needed a PU for the 2014 season and Honda had agreed to be that supplier. I don't think anybody had figured out at that time how hard whatever design mistakes they would make going into F1 in 2014 would be to change. The token system limited how much could change from year to year. So if you wanted to move the exhaust ports on the Heads, well that would mean a modification to the intake as well(cause the intake ports would be in the way) and the exhaust manifold. You were only allowed to change 2 parts.....Intake, heads and exhaust manifolds would be 3 parts.

The token system was design to limit spending on PU but in the end it ended up being a lobster trap on the original design. So yeah, circumstances lead to the initial Honda PU being poorly designed from jump. Then the token system made it really hard to correct those design flaws. The CAP now is just how Much money they spend. So even if some team does get it wrong the first year. They can change whatever they want.

Honda left in 2008 and returned in 2015. Remember McLaren ran Merc PU for 2014.

[peewon]

Yeah I guess.

Merc had been building F1 PUs for years prior to 2014. So when the 2014 regs got finalized in 2010, they immediately started working on the PU for the 2014 regs. Honda didn't decide to jump back into F1 till late 2012, at that point they didn't have anything in F1. They'd been out of the game for at least 5 years. They knew they wouldn't be ready but McLaren having divorced from Merc, pressured Honda. McLaren needed a PU for the 2014 season and Honda had agreed to be that supplier. I don't think anybody had figured out at that time how hard whatever design mistakes they would make going into F1 in 2014 would be to change. The token system limited how much could change from year to year. So if you wanted to move the exhaust ports on the Heads, well that would mean a modification to the intake as well(cause the intake ports would be in the way) and the exhaust manifold. You were only allowed to change 2 parts.....Intake, heads and exhaust manifolds would be 3 parts.

The token system was design to limit spending on PU but in the end it ended up being a lobster trap on the original design. So yeah, circumstances lead to the initial Honda PU being poorly designed from jump. Then the token system made it really hard to correct those design flaws. The CAP now is just how Much money they spend. So even if some team does get it wrong the first year. They can change whatever they want.

I think its possible that Honda produces a PU on par with Merc. But I think its also possible Merc is ahead. If you read into what happened in 2014, Merc already had a novel technology under their belt which was the split turbo design, 5-7 years prior to the regs. It came from Daimler which is their trucking division. Even if Honda came in prepared, they would have struggled to match Mercedes in 2014.

My sneaky suspicion is they have something similar in hand related to regen or deployment based on how they have been the only team to strongly oppose any changes to the regs when almost every team not listed to be a Merc customer has expressed concerns about running out of battery on straights.

Yes the token system protected Merc's advantage for 5-6 seasons but now we have the cost cap, which may not be as restrictive as Token system but will have the same effect so it may only need 2 or 3 seasons to catch up but wont change much for 2026.

[peewon]

Well Mercedes engine department was led by Andy Cowell back then and there’s already been suggestions he’s helped Honda along with Newey with nailing down their ambitious ideas. Let’s see what happens but I’m hoping Honda can pull a rabbit out of the hat again at the final hour.

Mercedes' advantage in 2014 came from their split turbo design which they borrowed from their trucking division Daimler.

https://www.espn.in/f1/story/_/id/14759 ... -get-right

Its almost impossible to say who was the main person responsible for that in such a scenario but Cowell does seem to be ambitious in targets and gels well with Newey.