2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[JPower]

You guys have a very romantic view of things.

Even at Red Bull, where Newey worked, Perez has said several times that he was never listened to. Hamilton, when he was at Mercedes, also complained a lot about never being listened to, etc., etc., etc...

It's a human thing. Almost all the car's behavior is in the telemetry data; most engineers will believe the telemetry more than the drivers' words, for ego reasons.

And this happens even with race engineers when setting up the car, so imagine what happens with the high-level engineers responsible for the car design...

Nonsense.

[Badger]

I think you missunderstand the role the driver plays in a team. He IS a central peice and will be exposed to all departments and how they work. He will be called to test developments he will be aware or wind tunnel runs and upgrades coming to the car. He will be in meetings with the designers.

There are people who have an unbiased view while being more connected than any of us here, and many credible ones pretty much agree with my thoughts. Ferrari should wise-up and start making ever effort to consider what Hamilton is saying about how a winning team should be!


https://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari-m ... o-cigarini

Cigarini is convinced that Hamilton can be Ferrari’s Michael Schumacher 2.0, but only if he is allowed to shape the team’s direction.

“Hamilton brings knowledge and organisation typical of British teams, which are highly structured and different from Ferrari,” said Cigarini.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/juan-pabl ... port-tools

“The faster Ferrari’s team and engineers listen to Hamilton on how to make the car better, the better it will be for the team in the long term.”

I'm surprised you are failing to see this. Or are you turning away from a bitter medicine?

Unless what he is saying is credible feedback on the car’s behaviour on track, they should ignore him completely and trust the engineers to do engineering. To see examples of “driver engineering” from recent times, one needs only to look back to last year at Mercedes. They were bending over backwards to accommodate things like the seat position and it had zero impact on Hamilton’s performance. He was actually worse compared to George after they “fixed” that for him, and the car was hardly competitive either. Ferrari would be making a fatal mistake by treating his suggestions as relevant feedback when in reality they have turned out to be excuses.

Ferrari need to resist the urge of placating Hamilton and his fans, and they need to do what they think is best based on their engineering knowledge, of which Hamilton has none.

[Luscion]

I think you missunderstand the role the driver plays in a team. He IS a central peice and will be exposed to all departments and how they work. He will be called to test developments he will be aware or wind tunnel runs and upgrades coming to the car. He will be in meetings with the designers.

There are people who have an unbiased view while being more connected than any of us here, and many credible ones pretty much agree with my thoughts. Ferrari should wise-up and start making ever effort to consider what Hamilton is saying about how a winning team should be!


https://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari-m ... o-cigarini

Cigarini is convinced that Hamilton can be Ferrari’s Michael Schumacher 2.0, but only if he is allowed to shape the team’s direction.

“Hamilton brings knowledge and organisation typical of British teams, which are highly structured and different from Ferrari,” said Cigarini.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/juan-pabl ... port-tools

“The faster Ferrari’s team and engineers listen to Hamilton on how to make the car better, the better it will be for the team in the long term.”

I'm surprised you are failing to see this. Or are you turning away from a bitter medicine?

Unless what he is saying is credible feedback on the car’s behaviour on track, they should ignore him completely and trust the engineers to do engineering. To see examples of “driver engineering” from recent times, one needs only to look back to last year at Mercedes. They were bending over backwards to accommodate things like the seat position and it had zero impact on Hamilton’s performance. He was actually worse compared to George after they “fixed” that for him, and the car was hardly competitive either. Ferrari would be making a fatal mistake by treating his suggestions as relevant feedback when in reality they have turned out to be excuses.

Ferrari need to resist the urge of placating Hamilton and his fans, and they need to do what they think is best based on their engineering knowledge, of which Hamilton has none.

Francesco Cigarini who i believe was a mechanic during the Schumi era says Ferrari should listen to his input

https://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari-m ... o-cigarini

[Badger]

Unless what he is saying is credible feedback on the car’s behaviour on track, they should ignore him completely and trust the engineers to do engineering. To see examples of “driver engineering” from recent times, one needs only to look back to last year at Mercedes. They were bending over backwards to accommodate things like the seat position and it had zero impact on Hamilton’s performance. He was actually worse compared to George after they “fixed” that for him, and the car was hardly competitive either. Ferrari would be making a fatal mistake by treating his suggestions as relevant feedback when in reality they have turned out to be excuses.

Ferrari need to resist the urge of placating Hamilton and his fans, and they need to do what they think is best based on their engineering knowledge, of which Hamilton has none.

Francesco Cigarini who i believe was a mechanic during the Schumi era says Ferrari should listen to his input

https://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari-m ... o-cigarini

So if Lewis says they should do something and the engineering team disagrees you think they should go with Lewis' suggestion?

[Luscion]

Unless what he is saying is credible feedback on the car’s behaviour on track, they should ignore him completely and trust the engineers to do engineering. To see examples of “driver engineering” from recent times, one needs only to look back to last year at Mercedes. They were bending over backwards to accommodate things like the seat position and it had zero impact on Hamilton’s performance. He was actually worse compared to George after they “fixed” that for him, and the car was hardly competitive either. Ferrari would be making a fatal mistake by treating his suggestions as relevant feedback when in reality they have turned out to be excuses.

Ferrari need to resist the urge of placating Hamilton and his fans, and they need to do what they think is best based on their engineering knowledge, of which Hamilton has none.

Francesco Cigarini who i believe was a mechanic during the Schumi era says Ferrari should listen to his input

https://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari-m ... o-cigarini

So if Lewis says they should do something and the engineering team disagrees you think they should go with Lewis' suggestion?

I didnt say any of that, you said they should ignore him completely, im showing that a long time ferrari mechanic says they should listen to some of his input

[Badger]

Francesco Cigarini who i believe was a mechanic during the Schumi era says Ferrari should listen to his input

https://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari-m ... o-cigarini

So if Lewis says they should do something and the engineering team disagrees you think they should go with Lewis' suggestion?

I didnt say any of that, you said they should ignore him completely, im showing that a long time ferrari mechanic says they should listen to some of his input

I didn't say they should ignore him completely. I said they should listen to his feeback on the limitations of the car on track, but it's up to the engineers on how to solve it. They should ignore him completely on engineering solutions, yes.

[RonMexico]

In general I think the driver is vastly overstated in the development process, only because we as fans have an attachment to them. The job of the driver in terms of development is to provide reliable feedback about the limitations of the car on track, and to have a practical understanding of how to set up the car. Beyond that development is basically all engineering.

How can a driver come up with constructive criticism on the allocation of resources and personnel when they don't have a proper understanding on what those resources and personnel are actually doing? It just becomes a guessing game. F1 engineering is high science done by the academically gifted, F1 driving is repetitive grunt work done by people who barely graduated high school. There's little common understanding there, just common goals.

Did you know that Michael Schumacher was the one that came up with the idea to measure minimum speeds in the turns? He asked for a little digital display on his steering that clipped at the lowest speed when he goes through each corner. He didn't have to be an engineer to come up with that did he? I hope you understand what we mean when we say a clever driver with all-round experience can have a driect impact into the performance of processes into the car and around the car.

It was an analogue display. He also invented the blown diffuser and told Rory Byrne how to draw it. Pneumatic valves for V10 engines was his development also.

I hope Hamilton is on a short leash next year and they can get out of his albatross of a contract.

[SiLo]

It was an analogue display. He also invented the blown diffuser and told Rory Byrne how to draw it. Pneumatic valves for V10 engines was his development also.

I hope Hamilton is on a short leash next year and they can get out of his albatross of a contract.

I can't tell if this is satire.

[dans79]

So if Lewis says they should do something and the engineering team disagrees you think they should go with Lewis' suggestion?

What exactly is your problem?

[Badger]

So if Lewis says they should do something and the engineering team disagrees you think they should go with Lewis' suggestion?

What exactly is your problem?

Answer the question instead of attacking the man.

[clownfish]

So if Lewis says they should do something and the engineering team disagrees you think they should go with Lewis' suggestion?

I didnt say any of that, you said they should ignore him completely, im showing that a long time ferrari mechanic says they should listen to some of his input

I didn't say they should ignore him completely. I said they should listen to his feeback on the limitations of the car on track, but it's up to the engineers on how to solve it. They should ignore him completely on engineering solutions, yes.

What engineering solutions did Lewis propose?

[Badger]

I didnt say any of that, you said they should ignore him completely, im showing that a long time ferrari mechanic says they should listen to some of his input

I didn't say they should ignore him completely. I said they should listen to his feeback on the limitations of the car on track, but it's up to the engineers on how to solve it. They should ignore him completely on engineering solutions, yes.

What engineering solutions did Lewis propose?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 0f3di9hdMa

I hold a lot of meetings, so I’ve called on lots of meetings with the heads of the team. I’ve sat with John [Elkann, Ferrari Chairman], Benedetto [Vigna, Ferrari CEO] and Fred [Vasseur, Ferrari F1 team boss], several meetings.

I’ve sat with the head of our car development, with Loic [Serra], but also with the heads of different departments, talking about the engine for next year, talking about front suspension for next year, talking about rear suspension for next year, things that you want, issues that you have with the car. I’ve sent documents. I’ve done [that] through the year. After the first few races I did a full document for the team, then during this break [between races] I had another two documents that I sent in and so they would come in and want to address those.

Some of it’s structural, adjustments that we need to make as a team in order to get better in all the areas that we want to improve. Then the other one was really about the car, the current issues that I have with this car, some things that you do want to take onto next year’s car and some that you need to work on and change for next year

It's like he thinks he's Gordon Ramsay in Kitchen Nightmares, except he's not a chef, Ferrari isn't a pigsty, and this isn't reality TV He's a driver!

And what started the conversation here is fans encouraging this by saying stuff like "Ferrari should just listen to Lewis, let him lead the team". Why? Nothing that has happened over the past 4 years tells me that he's the guy at this stage of his career, whether it be for driving or development. He talks a lot (as Elkann pointed out), but it's not from a position of strength, it's out of insecurity about his performance and looking for excuses. All of this talk may have been tolerable if he was performing, but he's not.

[venkyhere]

While I don't want to comment on his involvement(or lack of) in 'car development' (we are reminded of the various 'I am the man for experiements' in 2022 and 2023 at Mercedes) ; one thing I can say with confidence - he hasn't adapted his driving to suit a ground effect (GE) car, where combined entry (steering + super-aggressive braking) into a corner disturbs the car so much, that it loses balance.
That's because of the shape of the underfloor 'low pressure slice of air' :
-- in the 'normal flat floor era', this was a wedge shaped high speed air, which produced suction that was less sensitive to the dynamic shape changes to the wedge (which comes mainly from hard braking under 'yaw')
-- int the GE venturi floor era, this is a small volume 'snake body shaped' tunnel with ultra-fast moving air, which produces suction ; thus making it super-sensitive to dynamic shape/orientation changes in corner entry. A big clue that this is the case, is the amount of anti-dive/anti-squat present in the GE designs, compared to the previous era.

Decades of muscle memory and 'instinct' (or just plain old stubborness) that makes him repeat the same 'hard late braking with not-little steering angle' on corner entry, is a technical deficiency from a driving standpoint. I am sure he is aware of this already. Hamilton will be happiest to see the back of 4 years of GE cars, and will be eager for the flat floor 2026 car.

[clownfish]

I didn't say they should ignore him completely. I said they should listen to his feeback on the limitations of the car on track, but it's up to the engineers on how to solve it. They should ignore him completely on engineering solutions, yes.

What engineering solutions did Lewis propose?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 0f3di9hdMa

I hold a lot of meetings, so I’ve called on lots of meetings with the heads of the team. I’ve sat with John [Elkann, Ferrari Chairman], Benedetto [Vigna, Ferrari CEO] and Fred [Vasseur, Ferrari F1 team boss], several meetings.

I’ve sat with the head of our car development, with Loic [Serra], but also with the heads of different departments, talking about the engine for next year, talking about front suspension for next year, talking about rear suspension for next year, things that you want, issues that you have with the car. I’ve sent documents. I’ve done [that] through the year. After the first few races I did a full document for the team, then during this break [between races] I had another two documents that I sent in and so they would come in and want to address those.

Some of it’s structural, adjustments that we need to make as a team in order to get better in all the areas that we want to improve. Then the other one was really about the car, the current issues that I have with this car, some things that you do want to take onto next year’s car and some that you need to work on and change for next year

It's like he thinks he's Gordon Ramsay in Kitchen Nightmares, except he's not a chef, Ferrari isn't a pigsty, and this isn't reality TV He's a driver!

And what started the conversation here is fans encouraging this by saying stuff like "Ferrari should just listen to Lewis, let him lead the team". Why? Nothing that has happened over the past 4 years tells me that he's the guy at this stage of his career, whether it be for driving or development. He talks a lot (as Elkann pointed out), but it's not from a position of strength, it's out of insecurity about his performance and looking for excuses. All of this talk may have been tolerable if he was performing, but he's not.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see anything there saying he is making suggestions on "engineering solutions".

My interpretation of that statement is that he wants certain characteristics in the suspension, engine etc. I don't think he's going over the finer points of carbon layup and what material the spark plugs are made from.

Also this thing of Lewis "not performing" and "needing excuses" ... he's a tenth off Leclerc who has been driving Ferrari cars for 6 years and Ferrari PUs for 7 years. I don't think he's doing too badly.

[Badger]

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see anything there saying he is making suggestions on "engineering solutions".

My interpretation of that statement is that he wants certain characteristics in the suspension, engine etc. I don't think he's going over the finer points of carbon layup and what material the spark plugs are made from.

Also this thing of Lewis "not performing" and "needing excuses" ... he's a tenth off Leclerc who has been driving Ferrari cars for 6 years and Ferrari PUs for 7 years. I don't think he's doing too badly.

Maybe, maybe not. Either way it's becoming clear to me that that all these meetings and documents haven't gone over too well with some people at the team. And you can understand why, should Ferrari start sending documents to Hamilton over the holidays on how to drive the car faster? Each has their own responsibilities and that should be the focus.

He's down 3-15 in race results, 5-16 in the quali (average gap more like 2 tenths). He hasn't scored a single podium and Leclerc has 7. He has crashed twice in the last seven races completely on his own. Is that "performing"? I don't think so, not for the money Elkann is paying.