2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[vorticism]

Getting pole & winning the race but not winning the championship is a perfect metaphor for this season. B) Verstappen won the optics championship this season. No trophy for that. Instead, a lingering shadow in the shape of Max Verstappen was cast over this season. Within that shadow, Lando Norris won his championship, with his teammate Oscar Piastri closely behind, when it should have been one of them casting that shadow. Even the press & bandwagon elements that are usually lockstep against Verstappen were forced to acknowledge his mastery so frequently that it seems they forgot they’d been trained to oppose him. Max bent them to his will. Cheap shots & slurs against him could no longer cut it--because there he was putting the RB21 where it shouldn’t be, time and again. World Optics Champion. Onto ’26.

[Gillian]

The difference in quality needed to get close to Max and to challenge the Mclarens is a gulf compared to Piastri being reliably 1 tenth slower than he is now and Lando scooping up most wins.

Not sure what you mean.

I checked the results btw and removed Piastri everywhere he finished in front of Norris and then moved Norris up a position. It gained him about 47 points. It is interesting that in most of those results Verstappen + at least 1 more driver where in front of Norris as well. I'm saying a better teammate to Verstappen would/should have been in that gap as well. That's a 40/50 points swing right there.

I understand, but there's a lot more work to do to get Yuki to challenge Max, not just about driver ability, but also getting a car that can be driven by more than one person. That stuff is pretty serious deficiency in the team, whereas if Piastri was .1 a lap slower, Lando would have walked to the title. That isn't to big up Lando, he's not a brilliant driver, Max is.

But taking favourites and team allegiances aside, circumstances helped mitigate the forces working against Max and helped get him deeper into the championship.

On a seperate note, Max has been a great driver this year, his demeanour both on and off the track has equalled his talent.

Hope to see him in an Orange car in 2027

Tsunoda did not do that bad, the field is just extremely tight. I remember when Bottas qualified top 3 with larger deficits than Tsunoda to Verstappen. The car does not matter, Verstappen is just that good. Even in 2022 when Verstappen was complaining about understeering, he still beat Perez. Did Perez take 50ish points from Verstappen back then?
This whole yadayada of Red Bull being a one man team, custom one man car, one man strategy is just tiresome. Maybe when the guy is 40+ and beyond his prime, it will start to matter but until that time comes, he will be beating anyone on the current grid, no matter what car they drive.

And btw I have no allegiance, I'm a neutral fan and just love excellent drivers, like Senna, Schumi, Verstappen. I guess that makes this team thread the only one where you can post safely.

[AR3-GP]

What's this about GP potentially stepping down as race engineer

Marko gone, GP gone...

[mwillems]

That stuff is pretty serious deficiency in the team, whereas if Piastri was .1 a lap slower, Lando would have walked to the title.

This kind of statement belittles the depth and breadth of skill that is required to be a good Formula 1 driver. It's not just about pace. I can prove that by pointing you to the many races last year when Max Verstappen defeated Lando Norris despite being 1 tenth or more slower on the race track. I can also point you to the times that even Oscar Piastri defeated Lando Norris despite being slower (Hungary 2024, Monza 2024). So what does your statement really say? Lando's issue is often not pace (though it can be). His greater weaknesses are still lap 1/starts, little mistakes under pressure, and racecraft which is simply a very big hole that a more competent opponent can exploit even if you are faster. Being quick is not enough.

Dude, I don't think any if this changes the fact that he got a bit further than he or the car deserved on their own merit, sorry.

My statement says exactly what it says, Max benefitted from having two equally talented drivers taking points off each other and that it it is very small margins that would put one driver consistently in front. it is not small margins to do the same in the Red Bull, it'd be a miracle.

[FittingMechanics]

Piastri lost this championship not in the last 10 races, he lost it in a three race stretch Austin, Mexico, Sao Paulo. In those three races he was P5 in each one, with Norris being P2, P1 and P1.

This lost him a total of 38 points against Norris. If he just finished right behind Norris, he would lose only 17 points giving him +21, this would put him as net championship lead before Abu Dhabi (+5 against Norris) and with his P2 drive today would be the champion.

[f1isgood]

What's this about GP potentially stepping down as race engineer

Marko gone, GP gone...

Marko gone is good. Him and the Austrian side caused all the drama and made matters public making last year intolerable

GP gone would be crazy... I hope he is alright and things are good for him.

[AR3-GP]

What's this about GP potentially stepping down as race engineer

Marko gone, GP gone...

Marko gone is good. Him and the Austrian side caused all the drama and made matters public making last year intolerable

GP gone would be crazy... I hope he is alright and things are good for him.

Like them or hate them, that's Max's circle of trust. Red Bull has lost a lot of people close to Max now. Those 3 other guys in Max's garage (control engineer etc, will also be gone). Imo it's symbolic. End of an era. It's not really a leap to imagine what happens after 2026.

[f1isgood]

Marko gone, GP gone...

Marko gone is good. Him and the Austrian side caused all the drama and made matters public making last year intolerable

GP gone would be crazy... I hope he is alright and things are good for him.

Like them or hate them, that's Max's circle of trust.

Valid point but I don't think I have ever been a fan of Marko after the antics last year. That said, Marko is simply getting old. There might not be anything more here.

GP is the sad part. And he is irreplaceable in my opinion.

[AR3-GP]

Valid point but I don't think I have ever been a fan of Marko after the antics last year. That said, Marko is simply getting old. There might not be anything more here.

GP is the sad part. And he is irreplaceable in my opinion.

On Marko, of course it doesn't mean anything, but then it's part of a greater sentiment when many of the figures that make the "home" disappear...

On GP, he's outstanding and it would be sad, but then Verstappen doesn't have a choice. He will learn how to work with a different engineer and it will have to work. He will not be crippled by this.

The most important thing is getting back to a competitive car again. The rest will sort itself out. This year feels like 1998. There's much more to come.

[vorticism]

Marko gone, GP gone...

Marko gone is good. Him and the Austrian side caused all the drama and made matters public making last year intolerable

GP gone would be crazy... I hope he is alright and things are good for him.

Like them or hate them, that's Max's circle of trust. Red Bull has lost a lot of people close to Max now. Those 3 other guys in Max's garage (control engineer etc, will also be gone). Imo it's symbolic. End of an era. It's not really a leap to imagine what happens after 2026.

Yeah, the boardroom had a war with itself after Mateschitz passed away, it seems. My thought going into this last race was: "They were never gonna win this season without Horner." Let alone Newey and some of the others who are now gone. Ultimately there's a core of talented people at RBR including, of course, Max Verstappen, who became something of a team principal this year. He rallied the troops and inspired his team, in a time of turmoil, but for me, a greater question lingers: where does the RB board take this team in the future?

[arunn]

I mean lando got a custom suspension to suit his driving style even after 7 years of driving in the same team, Liam Lawson thanked lando who did the same and found more lap time. Everyone has these preferences. Max likes to throw the car around in the corners using as much of the track as possible so needs his car to be very lose that's his driving style.So with how much time max spends in his sim you can imagine he'd make a lot of tweaks to his setup which is the only thing different from the second car.If the cars are too extreme then it's only because Red Bull sacrificing balance to chase performance.

we should stop with the car is designed for him one as if we wouldn't see max winning in Texas if we exchanged the drivers even with oscar as teammate and the lead Red Bull won't be 2 points behind.

[organic]

That's the thing. It's become another team run by the board, rather than the people in the team

[AR3-GP]

Oh well, its Formula One. Whatever is going to happen will happen. The only disappointing outcome would be if Verstappen simply retired after 2026.

[f1isgood]

Valid point but I don't think I have ever been a fan of Marko after the antics last year. That said, Marko is simply getting old. There might not be anything more here.

GP is the sad part. And he is irreplaceable in my opinion.

On Marko, of course it doesn't mean anything, but then it's part of a greater sentiment when many of the figures that make the "home" disappear...

On GP, he's outstanding and it would be sad, but then Verstappen doesn't have a choice. He will learn how to work with a different engineer and it will have to work. He will not be crippled by this.

The most important thing is getting back to a competitive car again. The rest will sort itself out. This year feels like 1998. There's much more to come.

Lets hope. Red Bull was distinct from other teams in that they were a racing team. Others were basically board run teams interested in mostly increasing shareholder value. I noticed this happening to Red Bull when Laurent was speaking and he said even shareholders are on the same page or whatever.

I will also be honest but part of me does wonder if, at a certain level, Red Bull would have benefitted from Horner towards the end of the year instead of Mekies. The upgrade probably still works as it was commissioned when he was TP and Red Bull were always good at executing races for the most part (although that has gone down a bit recently since last year in general). So I don't see much changing except for some good vibes as Verstappen didn't get faltered by anything last year. Maybe things did get untenable after all with Max's camp and Horner - what do I know except to speculate? I think Zak/McLaren wouldn't have had a good time with Horner around at all....

But I think the technical team had a real test and they did okay, but not good enough, without Newey and Marshall in the team. That said, they had to undo a lot of things so it's also unclear how limited they were when it came to taking risks with this car which I think as vorticism said elsewhere is RB20B and not RB21.

I generally feel positive about the chassis side of things as this team should be able to do okay for next year. The engine side also sounded promising but that's some challenge. A lot of things have to work next year.

[f1isgood]

Oh well, its Formula One. Whatever is going to happen will happen. The only disappointing outcome would be if Verstappen simply retired after 2026.

He might, afterall. He emphasized way too many times that Red Bull is his second family.